Announcer: 0:01

Entrepreneur, author and financial consultant, Marc Bernstein helps high-performing entrepreneurial business owners create a vision for the future and follow through on their goals and intentions. Ang O Honorato is a business growth strategist who blends psychology and business together to create conscious leaders and business owners who impact the world. Founders Forum is a radio show podcast sharing the real stories behind entrepreneurship as founders discover more about themselves, while providing valuable lessons and some fun and entertainment for you. Now here's Marc and Ang.

Marc Bernstein: 0:35

Good morning America. How are you? Good morning Philadelphia. We're live on the radio this morning on WWDB 860 AM on your radio dial, but you're probably hearing us as a podcast, and this is a podcast, as you heard, about founders of businesses, and we always start with an interesting topic of the day. So I had a very interesting evening last night, Ang, and that was my induction to the Union League of Philadelphia, which, if you asked me 30 years ago if I would ever be a member of the Union League, I would have said never, because it was a much different.

Ang Onorato: 1:08

Never say never.

Marc Bernstein: 1:09

It was a much different place then. Never say never is right, and I you know in my interview you have to have an interview to get in. It's a whole year long process. This is a big deal to get in and I originally I had reasons of convenience and things like that why I originally got interested. My office is closer, I wanted to spend more time in Center City, philadelphia, et cetera.

Marc Bernstein: 1:33

But I also saw some things about the Union League, some of the decisions they made I wasn't sure about and things like that. But then a friend started taking me to events there while I was going through the process and I went to some urban affairs things and we talked about the future of Philadelphia and we talked about the principles of Lincoln which is what the Union League is all about, which are things like, you know, obviously, anti-slavery, abolishment of slavery, abolition back then, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of free enterprise and business. And I thought, wow, these are all things that I've kind of fought for all my life. In fact, in high school I interviewed a woman that was around during the Civil War at that time and who was involved in the Underground Railroad. So I knew a lot about all that and all that history and I thought, wow, this really aligns for me. And I thought, even if I don't agree with all the decisions, I'm better on the inside having a voice than if I'm on the outside not having a voice, kind of thing. And the induction was all about what? The principles of the league and all that again, and it made me something that I ultimately became very proud of. And we're here about business.

Marc Bernstein: 2:47

So I think our whole show, if there weren't for free enterprise, we would have a whole different show. In fact, we've talked to people and are going to talk to people from Eastern Europe and places where they didn't have those opportunities, or other places who have come to America for the opportunities that we have. So, as much as all the negativity about the US today and all the protests and all the things that are going on, my belief is still it's the greatest place, it's the greatest experiment in democracy that the world's ever seen and it's still the greatest place to be and it's up to us to make it better. So I just said a lot. Any thoughts, Ang?

Ang Onorato: 3:27

Well, I could just summarize in one or two sentences that I think what I'm hearing you talk about is just finding a way to get back to you know our core principles as a nation, and first principles even. Right. It's just why were we founded? What were the concrete things that we're founded upon? And if there's organizations or things out there that you can get involved or we all can, and use that platform for the greater good, then I'm here for it.

Marc Bernstein: 3:54

I want to hear from our guest today, dr Stephen Hess, who I'll formally introduce in a minute. But, steve, any Dr Hess do you have? Prefer Steve or Dr Hess on the radio? I think Steve is fine, steve is great. So, steve, any thoughts on that?

Stephen D. Hess, M.D., Ph.D., F.A.A.D: 4:06

No, I love the Union League and you know I have an office right in Center City, just a couple blocks from the building, and it's not only a beautiful building and very historic, but it's a wonderful organization and I love that. It supports free enterprise and business and I know a lot of members and I think it's a great organization, a lot of great leaders in the community in Philadelphia. So I think it's wonderful and congratulations on your induction.

Marc Bernstein: 4:35

Thank you Well, steve. So full disclosure. Steve just became a doctor of mine and one of the reasons, quite frankly, was because I joined the Union League and he's two blocks away and he's got a great reputation. So let me introduce Steve it's a perfect opportunity Stephen Hess. Dr Stephen Hess was born and raised in Buffalo, new York, and is still a long-suffering Buffalo Bills fan, you know. So we're from Philly, so we can relate to that, although we haven't had that long a drought at this point. Anyway, he spent four years in North Carolina and graduated from Wake Forest University a great school before returning to Buffalo for medical school. Dr Hess then moved to Philadelphia in 2004 and completed his dermatology residency at the University of Pennsylvania. He refounded and he'll talk about this Center City Dermatology in 2012. So welcome, steve. Officially Great to have you here. Tell us a little bit about your story, how you got into your practice, how you refounded it and some of the challenges that you had along the way, which is always an interesting thing about entrepreneurs to hear.

Stephen D. Hess, M.D., Ph.D., F.A.A.D: 5:38

Absolutely, and thanks for that kind introduction. So you know, after I finished residency at University of Pennsylvania and that's a great training program in dermatology, great institution I was a little bit nervous about maybe going out on my own and just hanging a shingle. So I went to work for another practice in the area and I spent four years there and I learned a lot. I learned a lot not only about dermatology, but I learned a lot about how to run a business. And in fact one of the interesting things is I learned not only what works, but I learned some things that I thought didn't work well and sort of little nuggets I put in my head about, if I ever own my own practice, how I might do things differently. So after four years you kind of came to a decision point about whether I would stay on at this practice as a partner or possibly, you know, go out on my own, and it was a difficult decision to make. You know, ultimately I deferred that decision and went and joined another practice for a year because I wasn't quite ready and maybe not sure about going out on my own.

Stephen D. Hess, M.D., Ph.D., F.A.A.D: 6:51

But then after that year, at my second practice, you know, I had an opportunity to open my own business and essentially, center City Dermatology existed. A colleague of mine had started it about two years prior. It was a very small office, I think it had five employees, tiny space, and she and her husband were going to leave the area and she was either going to close the practice or sell the practice to a large hospital organization. So the practice was essentially going to cease to exist. But I decided to step in and sort of I'll say adopt or refound Center City Dermatology. I said I'm not going to let this go under. I'm going to take the reins of this and we're going to keep this going, but we're going to change it, we're going to refound it and we're going to grow and expand. And so you know, I made that leap I guess it would be five years after finishing my training at Penn. That was in 2012. And I haven't looked back since.

Marc Bernstein: 7:53

I'll just make a quick observation which could lead us to the next question, which is I know today you were five employees and I know you're about 30 employees today. With two locations, there's been tremendous growth in a 12-year period. So let's talk about that. How did that happen and what were some of the challenges you faced along the way towards that?

Stephen D. Hess, M.D., Ph.D., F.A.A.D: 8:11

Yes, that's yeah, exactly. We started with five employees when I took over and refounded this and now we have about 32 locations, I think probably similar to. So I have two children and I think similar to the difference between having you know one child and then going to two children. That's a big change and, I think, the same challenge existed right with my practice.

Stephen D. Hess, M.D., Ph.D., F.A.A.D: 8:36

So going from one location to two locations, I think that was one of the biggest leaps and biggest challenges we had. And I didn't just open a second location in the city. The second location is actually in Exton, pennsylvania. We actually initially opened in Downingtown and we opened the second location about a year before the pandemic hit. So that was another challenge, right? So we opened the second location. Things were going well, we're seeing a lot of patients. We opened the second location. Things were going well, we're seeing a lot of patients, we're getting busy.

Stephen D. Hess, M.D., Ph.D., F.A.A.D: 9:07

Then, all of a sudden, the world shuts down. Trying to manage how to keep the business afloat in light of the restrictions and limitations with what we could do, that was another big challenge. Then, of course, because the two locations are not really in close proximity to each other, you know, I had to hire entirely new staff for the second location. I didn't want to have to have my staff commute between the two offices. It's okay if I do it, but I didn't want to ask them to do it. So then the challenge was finding the right staff to open the new location and then to, you know, sort of make us. You know, we're still one organization. So rather than having two completely separate entities, I wanted to make sure that they were integrated and you know the staff worked well and communicated well with each other. You know we're one big family at Center City Dermatology.

Marc Bernstein: 10:03

So, on that end, you probably have a couple questions about that. Finding the right people and keeping the right people is something we're interested in.

Ang Onorato: 10:10

Yeah, I mean, and not only in general. Right, no matter any industry. We ask every guest every week. You know their perspective on this. But I think, in healthcare, particularly during and kind of post-COVID, as you mentioned, how did you go about even identifying, attracting people to come in? Because I feel like you know the whole healthcare industry was so beaten down and so exhausted and whatever. But you know what do you attribute the fact that you found the team that you have and how did you keep them engaged, even when maybe business wasn't operating on all cylinders, and how does that fill into the culture that you have today?

Stephen D. Hess, M.D., Ph.D., F.A.A.D: 10:50

Yeah, that's a great question and it was challenging. You know, even before COVID there were challenges, you know, trying to find the right people. But I think after the pandemic hit it was even more challenging, right? Because a lot of prospective staff members maybe didn't want to work in a healthcare setting. They were worried about potential risks of infection and things like that, you know. So that's tough and I think you know, word of mouth is probably the way that I found, you know, most of my best employees.

Stephen D. Hess, M.D., Ph.D., F.A.A.D: 11:21

You know, I try to make it a we work hard, but I try to make it a pleasant environment to work. And then some of my employees would actually refer friends or people they knew to come in and interview. And when I think about adding a new employee, I always want to make sure that they're going to fit in with the rest of the team. I don't want to bring someone in who's going to disrupt, you know, the culture that we have and and and so um, but certainly there were, there were challenges with respect to the, you know, with the pandemic and and in the healthcare setting. You're, you're exactly right.

Marc Bernstein: 11:58

In love, business and war. I say war jokingly, but it sounded like it belongs there. But um, personal introductions are always the best. It's uh, and it sounds like that's your experience in terms of getting employees as well.

Stephen D. Hess, M.D., Ph.D., F.A.A.D: 12:11

I agree. I mean, if someone can recommend you know, make a personal recommendation. I think that always tends to work out better than just you know finding somebody on a job website or just randomly. It seems in my experience to work out better that way.

Ang Onorato: 12:27

You know, I just want to. I think it's a really important thing for not just this conversation, but I've been in executive recruiting for close to 30 years and I've always said there's so many things out there. Now people say, oh, market this and use technology and blast your need or your job or your opening or whatever it is. But word of mouth and being referable, whether you're a speaker, whether you're a candidate, whether you're a business owner I think really just building an environment where people want to refer, it is a really it's a topic that's not spoken about enough. I feel like in the entrepreneurial or really the corporate space, I think it's sometimes it's the things you don't have to spend a lot of money to do, but just do the right things and attract people that way.

Stephen D. Hess, M.D., Ph.D., F.A.A.D: 13:11

Yes, I agree, and that's well said. I would also make the same point. You know, when it comes to, you know, our clients, our patients, that we see. I mean I don't do a lot of advertising to attract people. I think a lot of that is word of mouth, and if we do a good job and treat our patients right and treat them with respect and provide them with good care, they're going to refer their friends and family. So you know, we've kind of grown the business by word of mouth as well, just with our clients.

Marc Bernstein: 13:37

That's almost a professional services business, as you know, and that's same in our business. It's almost all word of mouth, and we've always been. We have people talking to us about marketing and it's probably a good idea, but I always wonder about if that sort of corrupts our culture or tracks the wrong kind of clients and changes the way we do business. So it's always something to consider, because word of mouth is really your best source.

Ang Onorato: 14:05

Yeah, a lot of markers, like to talk about the demographics, you know, get your target market, and here's all the strategies you can do. But it's really about the psychographics of that right. It's the right kind of person, that's the right fit for your services, that can, you know, can take your business to the next leap. Just by their own, you know, whisper down the lane.

Marc Bernstein: 14:26

So I we only have about a half a minute, so I'm going to give you a question and maybe not answer it yet, and then we're going to take a quick break. And that is, if this were to happen in your life personally, professionally and otherwise for you to feel that that was a successful three-year period. So with that, because it is commercial time, let's take a quick break and we'll come back and talk about that.

Announcer: 15:05

Do you suffer from acne, eczema or psoriasis? Are you worried about your moles and need a skin cancer screening? Are you experiencing hair loss? Would you like to rejuvenate your skin without surgery? Dr Hess and his team are here to help. Center City Dermatology is a premier medical practice with locations in both Center City, philadelphia and Exton, pa. Dr Stephen Hess and his team provide comprehensive, contemporary and customized skin care to patients of all ages. Their services include medical dermatology, dermatological surgery and pediatric dermatology. They also offer a full range of aesthetic and cosmetic services, including Botox filler injections, laser treatments and hair restoration. They're accepting new patients and take most insurance plans, including Medicare. Call today to schedule an appointment 267-687-4437 for the Philadelphia location or 484-237-2433 for the Exton location or visit centercitydermatologycom.

Marc Bernstein: 16:06

We're back. I like that music on the commercial TJ. We are back. I like that music on the commercial TJ. A nod to TJ Gleason, our engineer and quasi-producer these days.

Ang Onorato: 16:18

And Ange, what were we just talking about? Yeah, so just before the break we were talking about kind of three-year vision where, if it's three years from today, may Day, where are you, where is the business? What are you thinking about? What are you celebrating?

Stephen D. Hess, M.D., Ph.D., F.A.A.D: 16:30

Okay, so three years from now, looking at my vision, I would love to have a third office location, I think moving from two offices to three. Again, I'll make the analogy with children. I've heard that once you have two, it's not that much more challenging to go to a third, Although I don't know that.

Marc Bernstein: 16:51

But I'd like to have a third location. I have a friend that says in a fourth too, so just keep that in mind.

Stephen D. Hess, M.D., Ph.D., F.A.A.D: 16:55

Right, so it could snowball. Right, we could end up with four or five.

Ang Onorato: 16:58

I'm the first of three and I think my parents survived.

Stephen D. Hess, M.D., Ph.D., F.A.A.D: 17:01

But right, a third office location is definitely something I'm considering. I'm considering sort of fighting the trend, I would say, of dermatology practices being sold to private equity and in selling my business. I'd like to expand my business and I'd like to add some additional services as well. In particular, I'm looking to add Mohs micrographic surgery to my practice and that's a procedure that is done very specifically to treat certain types of skin cancer, predominantly those that occur on the face and head and neck area. So that's a service I'd like to bring in, and I'd also like to significantly expand the hair restoration part of my business. So we do offer hair restoration services, including hair transplantation, and that's a goal of mine over the next three years to grow that part of my practice.

Marc Bernstein: 17:56

Let's talk about that offline.

Stephen D. Hess, M.D., Ph.D., F.A.A.D: 17:58

Yes, yes we could Um. And then you know a couple other things. I'm thinking three years from now. You know, I've I've recently started working with a couple of folks in the area and we're trying to found a local dermatology and aesthetic conference in the city of Philadelphia. You know, that doesn't really exist right now. So a friend of mine who's a plastic surgeon and another gentleman, we're kind of coming together to see if we can get this off the ground and start this local dermatology and aesthetic meeting, and you know, so that's another goal.

Stephen D. Hess, M.D., Ph.D., F.A.A.D: 18:37

And maybe on the personal side, you know a couple things. I've got, as I said, two kids, and my older one in three years will be in college. So I will hope that I have helped him make the right choice there. And my younger son will at that point probably be in the process of picking his college. So I'd like to think that we'll have made good choices there. And you know, I've one other thing is is I've been training Brazilian jiu-jitsu pretty seriously for about the last seven years and I have my purple belt nowitsu pretty seriously for about the last seven years and I have my purple belt now and I'm hoping in the next three years I might be close to at least getting my black belt. That's a personal goal.

Ang Onorato: 19:17

You just motivated me. I'm a blue belt in jiu-jitsu. I've been off the mats a little bit from COVID and a hip injury, but I love to hear that it's such a life-changing sport.

Stephen D. Hess, M.D., Ph.D., F.A.A.D: 19:28

It's amazing We'll have to talk offline. Maybe get on the mats there.

Marc Bernstein: 19:32

One quick question for both of you. But what's the difference, real quick, between Brazilian jiu-jitsu and jujitsu there really isn't.

Ang Onorato: 19:42

Jiu-jitsu was invented in Brazil. Is that right, mm-hmm, but it's a combination of Japanese martial art and then it was perfected in Brazil and it just sounds better to say BJJ than JJ.

Marc Bernstein: 19:53

I think I agree, I didn't know that, yeah, so there's Pretty interesting.

Ang Onorato: 19:57

But jiu-jitsu is Not to tangent. But there's a lot of business leaders and male and female that are getting into jiu-jitsu because what you learn on the mat is more than a sport or a martial art. It's just the mental way to overcome challenges and you're in a dance with your partner. It's a very intricate thing.

Stephen D. Hess, M.D., Ph.D., F.A.A.D: 20:18

It absolutely is, and, in fact, a book I've been reading recently is something called the 32 Principles, and it's a book by Henner. Gracie, Exactly, and he talks about how we can use the principles that we learn in jujitsu to you know, improve and succeed in business and in relationships in life. And that's a wonderful book for anybody out there who may be interested in martial arts but also using those principles to help guide their life and in business as well.

Marc Bernstein: 20:48

Very interesting so and you mentioned overcoming interesting so, ang, you mentioned overcoming challenges. So, steve, you just outlined your three-year vision and there will certainly be some challenges in accomplishing some of those, and you've overcome challenges before. What strengths do you recognize about yourself that you've developed from your experiences that will help you get to that three-year vision and overcome those challenges?

Stephen D. Hess, M.D., Ph.D., F.A.A.D: 21:11

Sure, I think the more time I've spent doing this, I've gotten better at identifying the right people to put on the team, right to hire, and I think that's probably, maybe, looking back, what I consider my greatest success so far is not maybe anything I've done personally, but getting the right people on the team to help to grow the practice. And I think you know, as the practice expands, you know, one of the challenges I foresee is I can't do everything. I can't micromanage. So learning to kind of delegate more to the great people that I have on my team, I think that's something I need to. That can be a challenge with expansion, but I think it's something I'm working hard to, to get better at.

Marc Bernstein: 21:57

Have you heard the book um who, not how, by Dan Sullivan? I have not, so he's a mentor of mine. I'm getting it for you, it's a great book. It's a quick read and it's about um, it's about that very topic that success comes from just choosing the right people and staying out of their way.

Marc Bernstein: 22:13

Right, right and things that aren't your unique ability, finding the people that have that unique ability and getting out of their way, exactly, so exactly. I think that'd be great. Yeah, so, um, we will arrange that. Um, a couple of quick questions, cause we only have a few minutes left. Time flies on the show.

Ang Onorato: 22:31

We always say we could pack more into an hour than a half an hour, but it flies.

Marc Bernstein: 22:36

I'm going to reverse the order of our closing round questions, but I'm going to start with what's your favorite song, because I know it's going to be an interesting conversation.

Stephen D. Hess, M.D., Ph.D., F.A.A.D: 22:44

So I am a big Parrothead Jimmy Buffett fan. So my favorite song has been, and probably always will be, changes in Latitudes, changes in Attitudes. When I hear that song, my stress level drops and I just feel like it's not just a song, it's kind of a philosophy for life. And I don't listen to that song every day I probably should. But but instantly I feel my my heart rate go down and my stress go down and and it's, it's a wonderful song.

Marc Bernstein: 23:19

I you know, when you mentioned that, it reminded me of a song not really that genre, but it was from the eighties. Nobody going to break my stride, that was one of my. I used to listen to that every day for years and even though it's not the kind of music I listen to or I play, but it was just a very motivational song to me. That was kind of along those lines, an attitude type of song. I would say Okay, how about? What book are you currently?

Stephen D. Hess, M.D., Ph.D., F.A.A.D: 23:43

reading so the one I just mentioned, the 32 Principles of my Jiu-Jitsu Book.

Marc Bernstein: 23:49

I wrote it down for myself. I'm going to take a look at it myself. Pretty cool. And lastly, if you could speak to your younger self, knowing what you know today, what advice would you give you?

Stephen D. Hess, M.D., Ph.D., F.A.A.D: 24:00

I think what I would say to my younger self is don't be afraid to try, don't be afraid to go out there. I think, looking back on this, one of my, one of my biggest regrets is that I I didn't start my own business sooner. I think I guess I just I just didn't have the confidence to do it. I knew I had the medical training to be able to see patients, but I'm not sure I knew that I could start a business and run a business. But I think if I could go back, I would tell myself don't hesitate, don't wait, don't procrastinate, take the opportunity and give it a try. And that's what I would definitely say to my younger self.

Marc Bernstein: 24:43

You have been very efficient, so much so that we actually have a few minutes left, and one of the things I know that you are I know you're entrepreneurial, aside from your practice. You talked about starting a conference for dermatology. I know you're involved in some other things around dermatology, some new companies and things, and one of those will become a future show of ours. Anything you'd like to mention about that, some of the things coming down the road.

Stephen D. Hess, M.D., Ph.D., F.A.A.D: 25:08

Sure, you know a close friend of mine, a man by the name of Nathan Connelly. He has worked in the aesthetic and skincare world for a number of years and about six to eight months ago he just decided that you know what, I'm gonna take the leap of faith and I'm gonna resign my position and I'm gonna start my my position and I'm going to start my own company, and I really admire that, that he was able to do that. And so you know, his goal is to start this company called Invo Aesthetics and they're going to focus on skin care products and also products to, you know, promote hair growth, things like that. And I think he has a wonderful idea and I'm going to be involved in that. I've invested in the company and I'm an advisor and going to be on the board. So I think that's another exciting thing that I hope to be involved in and maybe as part of that three-year plan, I'd love to see Invo Aesthetics get some traction and get going.

Marc Bernstein: 26:08

You're still a relatively young man. You've got a lot in front of you. Do you see other entrepreneurial opportunities coming down the road as well?

Stephen D. Hess, M.D., Ph.D., F.A.A.D: 26:16

You know, I think that's an interesting question. I mean, certainly I'm open to them. You know, I do have to find that right balance between working and life outside of work, right. So I think I have a lot on my plate and I have, I have some goals, but but I also have, I've learned over the years that you know, life doesn't follow a straight line and there are lots of twists and turns and it's OK if it's if it, if you take a turn and it's not your destination. That's all preparation, and so I'm not sure that I have any concrete entrepreneurial plans besides what we discussed, but I am certainly open to opportunities should they present themselves, and in terms of life not being a straight line, that's for sure.

Marc Bernstein: 27:01

Do you and you mentioned that you their balance, the work-life balance, and you mentioned focus on your sons for the next couple of years? Anything else, there's jujitsu. Anything else personally that you'd like to see happen over the next three years or ways you'd like to spend your time?

Stephen D. Hess, M.D., Ph.D., F.A.A.D: 27:16

Well, I'd like to work on my golf game a little bit as well.

Ang Onorato: 27:19

I'd like to get my handicap under 10.

Stephen D. Hess, M.D., Ph.D., F.A.A.D: 27:22

That's the goal for this year. We'll see if it happens.

Ang Onorato: 27:25

He's eyeing that brown belt too. I can see it in his face, yep.

Marc Bernstein: 27:30

Well, I think that's a wrap for today and I think it's been a very interesting show. It's been a pleasure to talk to you, steve, and we're going to have you back again and talk about Invo Aesthetics in the future with Nate, hopefully, and everybody. Have a great day. Thanks for listening. Hope to see you again next week on Founders Forum.