Announcer: 0:00

The following programming is sponsored by Marc J Bernstein. The views expressed do not necessarily reflect the views of this station, its management or Beasley Media Group. Entrepreneur, founder, author and financial advisor, Marc Bernstein helps high-performing business owners turn their visions into reality. Through his innovative work and the Forward Focus Forums, Marc connects entrepreneurs to resources that fuel their success. Founders Forum is a radio show and podcast where entrepreneurs share their journeys, revealing the lessons they've learned and the stories behind their success. Join Marc and his guests for a mix of inspiration, valuable insights and a little fun. Now let's dive in.

Marc Bernstein: 0:40

Good morning America. How are you? This is Marc Bernstein, as you know, and this is kind of a new setting for us. We, as you know, if you've listened to the podcast before we traditionally broadcast out of Bala Cynwood, pennsylvania, right outside of Philadelphia, on WWDB radio. But today we are on WXKB radio in Southwest Florida and you also could be listening to us on Fort Myers 96.5, bonita Springs 101.5, naples 105.1, and on all over Southwest Florida 103.9 HD2, and also on podcast radio US Southwest Florida. So this is a new thing. We'll be here for a few months before we return to philly and um hope you're all staying with us throughout all this, and we'll be back on wwdb again come may of this year. And, uh, I have in the studio with me dan dimitri, who I'll officially introduce in a minute, but we've got a topic of the day, as we usually do. We'll start with that and then I'll introduce Dan and you'll hear a bit about his story. Morning Dan.

Daniel Dimitri: 1:51

Good morning. Good morning.

Marc Bernstein: 1:52

So, dan, I was thinking about this. This is a big sports week. It's been a big couple sports weeks for me. I'm a law school graduate of the Ohio State University and when I went there I went through a conversion from being a Michigan fan because I went to Delaware, which was little Michigan and I had. I'd been brainwashed in high school by a girlfriend's parents who went to Michigan and things like that. By the way, it's all blue and gold in the studio. You would think this is little Michigan too, or Little Delaware, but anyway. So I went through a pretty quick conversion and became a big Buckeye fan. Of course, they've won the National College Football Championship and our Philadelphia Eagles are going to the Super Bowl and, I believe, going to win at this time. But we'll see what happens. But I was thinking about this this morning as I'm walking Arlo, my dog, who I've mentioned before on the radio, and I was thinking about.

Marc Bernstein: 2:53

You know I have conflicted feelings about professional sports these days, as I think a lot of people do, you know. First of all, there's the money thing. You know, a lot of people see athletes at a very high level as being coddled. Now college athletes are starting to be able to get endorsements and get paid, and also football in particular, which I really love. I love the strategy of football and I love the mental aspect of it, but physically it's an absolutely brutal, violent game. You know it's like gladiators and you know guys give up their lives to some extent. You know it's an absolutely brutal, violent game. You know it's like gladiators and you know guys give up their lives to some extent. You know it's getting better. There's a little more safety precautions than they used to, but I know people trying to develop the right helmets to eliminate concussions, but guys are getting concussions all the time. So I almost feel like it's like watching gladiators kill each other. How do you react to that, dan? What do you think about sports today?

Daniel Dimitri: 3:50

Well, my first reaction, I have to say, is you mentioned the Philadelphia Eagles and I'm a. Commander slash.

Marc Bernstein: 3:57

Redskins fan. Well, my condolences.

Daniel Dimitri: 4:02

I actually had to leave the state of Pennsylvania to watch it in Florida, so I could safely cheer.

Announcer: 4:06

But that didn't turn out my way.

Daniel Dimitri: 4:09

I hear you. I loved playing football in high school. I mean, I was so passionate about it and it was my love. But then over the years I've heard about the concussions and the long-term effects and I was thinking, if I had a son, I don't know if I'd want him to go the football route as much as I enjoyed it and loved it and everything and and it is.

Daniel Dimitri: 4:32

I know they've done great improvements with the hitting and I think it's great. Before we used to love that, like the, you know, the gladiators and the Coliseum, but now it feels a little too brutal. Um, they got those helmets, which are great, but, uh, I understand they look like bobbleheads right, don't they? They're so big they're just so big and I know some players just won't do it just because the looks of it well, and they're still not preventing concussions.

Marc Bernstein: 4:57

I mean, they're still not doing the whole job. They're just so big, so fast.

Daniel Dimitri: 5:00

So strong, right? Um, it's going to be interesting because it is still like I've had to as we get older. I, you know, I'm running a company, I've got kids, I've got other responsibilities, I watched less and less sports, but the nfl is the one I'm still hanging on to, that in ufc, uh, and so it's. It is going to be interesting. What's going to happen yeah, so it's I.

Marc Bernstein: 5:20

It's just something I was thinking about because I'm really excited about the super Bowl, we're excited about it coming up, but I'm also like this is more of you know, more of, like I sometimes have a little thing in my stomach as I'm watching this. You know what are we really doing here, you know so, but, anyway, but team sports are great and it's great for kids, as long as we can figure out a way to do it safely, without harm, if that's at all possible. True, anyway, without harm, if that's at all possible. Anyway, so Dan Dimitri is co-founder and CEO of PharmaForce.

Marc Bernstein: 5:56

He's been 25 years in the healthcare IT space, including two startup IPOs in the Silicon Valley and big corporate executive experience prior to that at Kaiser or included in that time at Kaiser Permanente and McKesson. So he's been around and you know what I, in talking to Dan, as you know, I get to know people prior to the show. You know he's, he's, he's a leader who's always interested in growing and that those are the kind of leaders that I'm interested in and also developing and um, and in fact, that's what brought him here today, because he's he's getting acquainted with the podcast world. So this is a good, uh, a stepping stone for perhaps other things. Um so, uh, dan welcome thank you, thank you again.

Marc Bernstein: 6:35

Good to have you here and um, let's start at the beginning. So I know you. I know you grew up with this whole commodore's thing or commander's thing commodore's maybe the commodore's might have been a better name. That's a terrible. Commander's was. I know you grew up with this whole.

Daniel Dimitri: 6:47

Commodores thing or commanders thing. Commodores Maybe the Commodores might've been a better name. That's a terrible. Commanders was terrible. I'm hoping they do something else. I'm hoping the new ownership does something else.

Marc Bernstein: 6:54

Well, you know they're talking about going back to the Redskins. I don't see how you do that, but there's actually serious talk about.

Daniel Dimitri: 6:59

I know.

Marc Bernstein: 7:09

I've, we could. So anyway, tell, tell us about your journey. I know you grew up well, you kind of grew up all over, but you spent time as a in school in maryland and hence the uh, hence the uh, redskins commodore I'm going to keep calling commodore connection, but um, but now you're, now you actually live in Philadelphia and you're raising a daughter and you are running your company. But tell us how, how you got to that place, how that all came about.

Daniel Dimitri: 7:33

Sure. So, uh, graduated the business degree. Um, I'll say this you know there was a lot of stress getting out of high school, going to college and and what degree to pick.

Announcer: 7:44

And.

Daniel Dimitri: 7:45

I had a lot of pressure from my parents. God bless their soul. They're just doing their, their, their best for me, and say you know, become an engineer. And you know, and, and you know your, your life is going to depend on what you choose. And I'll just say this it doesn't. It doesn't like, uh, take a little stress off. You know. If college is the route, go, take a little stress off. If college is the route, go to it. And whatever you learn in college means nothing In four or five years, especially the rate and speed of change. Now it means nothing, but it is still a great tool because it is exercise for the mind, it tests you on. Here's a bunch of information. Try to understand it and take a position on it and explain it in a clear way. That's what you're going to have to do for the rest of your life. There's going to be some massive change, like AI.

Daniel Dimitri: 8:29

You're going to have to understand it, take a position on it and see how you're going to leverage it and explain it to others or do something with it. That's positive. So anyways, business administration degree. Did not think I was going to go into healthcare technology I didn't even know what technology was back then, you know, in the nineties but started off as an analyst, ended up in California Silicon Valley company so low person on the totem pole, young man, but fortunately was part of the experience of a company that ended up going IPO. And this is back in the nineties when everything went IPO right, people didn't sell to private equity firms.

Daniel Dimitri: 9:07

back then there wasn't really private equity, everything was Silicon.

Announcer: 9:11

Valley.

Daniel Dimitri: 9:11

IPOs and you gain a lot of experience when you're at a smaller company because you're much closer to everything. You're the CEO, you see them walking around right, you're engaging, et cetera, and I've been fortunate to be part of two startups that went IPO and learned a lot from that the nimbleness, the quick decision-making. And also one thing that you learn is no one has, like you know, when you're in business school, you think everyone has this perfect business plan and it's, you know, totally thought out. It doesn't really work that way, especially in Silicon Valley.

Daniel Dimitri: 9:46

Information comes in. You see people digesting it. Wow, what are we going to do? This is hard, I don't know. Let's try this and it's way less perfect than you think, which is okay, and the successful leaders really make good judgment calls. And in order to make good judgment calls, I've seen throughout my career, is you really have to take away emotions and people are going to give you a ton of information and they're seeing it from their different perspectives. It doesn't mean it's reality. You have to kind of boil everything down and really see things as they are, truthfully, objectively, and then make those great decisions.

Marc Bernstein: 10:23

Factually right, Based on facts Right. It's not what you feel.

Daniel Dimitri: 10:28

And this is wrong, so this person's wrong, all that goes away. You got to see it exactly like that.

Marc Bernstein: 10:32

Interesting. So how did that take you to your CEO founder? You founded PharmaForce. How did you get from your consulting career to into in your corporate career, into that?

Daniel Dimitri: 10:46

yeah, so after a couple of silicon valley stints I I went to. One of our customers was a very large health care system called kaiser permanente and I managed very large scale. So I went from like an analyst to like a project manager and a product manager, designing and organizing teams, develop big enterprise level software systems for health care. Then I went over to mckesson and I was doing that and so now I'm learning a different skillset. Now it's like big, giant corporate. These are some of the biggest corporations in America and in the world and you learn a different skillset to get anything done right.

Daniel Dimitri: 11:19

Now it's about politics and really good about soft skills.

Marc Bernstein: 11:23

Getting through the bureaucracy.

Daniel Dimitri: 11:24

Bureaucracy, motivating and getting people to follow you that don't have, where they don't even report to you, right? And trying to set directions, and that's a great skill set, to learn to like both between the small nimble and learning how to navigate big giant corporate. Those are very important things but eventually, like like a lot of people's careers, you get in a spot where you're no longer happy, right, the environment is no longer good for you and you're looking to go. And then I was approached by someone who-.

Marc Bernstein: 11:56

What was it about that culture or that setting you were in, that it was time to move on?

Daniel Dimitri: 12:03

So quite often I mean there's a lot of people that say this it's not necessarily that you stick around for companies, but it's quite often like the team that's around you. So you can be in a great company but surrounded by a bad environment within a giant company. So I don't want to disparage any company or anything like that, but I got it. I mean this happens to everybody. I got an environment that got very toxic and it was not productive, where it was more.

Daniel Dimitri: 12:31

Everybody was about themselves and how to improve their career versus the best thing for the company, and it just wasn't. It wasn't vibing anymore. And then an opportunity. Someone approached me and said hey, look, seems like you have a lot of success building products. I've got financial means and a software team. Maybe we could team up, come up with an idea and I have a lot of success building products. I've got financial means and a software team. Maybe we could team up, come up with an idea and I have resources that can help build it and we can make a product and a company together. And that's where we started PharmaForce.

Marc Bernstein: 12:56

That is a great jumping-off point because we need to take a quick commercial break and we'll be right back on Founders Forum.

Announcer: 13:02

The Satell Institute is the leading CEO member organization dedicated to corporate social responsibility. Under the vision and leadership of its founder, entrepreneur and philanthropist, ed Satell, the Institute brings together CEOs in Philadelphia and other cities to support the nonprofit organizations that do heroic work in our communities. The Satell Institute believes that community is every leader's business. Si's members-only meetings and private CEO conferences give members the opportunity to hear from world-class thought leaders on crucial topics like AI, education, corporate philanthropy and more. In addition, ceo members get the opportunity to share ideas and experience with their peers like-minded CEOs who believe in the importance of giving back to the community and who understand the benefits companies get from embracing corporate social responsibility. The Satell Institute charges no dues or fees In order to join. Member companies simply make a long-term commitment to the nonprofit of their choice. To find out more about membership and why so many leading companies are now part of the Satell Institute, visit the organization's website at satellinstitute. org. Satell S-A-T-E-L-L institute. org. As Ed Satell says, think we, not just me.

Marc Bernstein: 14:24

We are back on Founders Forum with our guest today, dan Dimitri of PharmaForce. So we were just talking about the inception of PharmaForce, so tell us what happened there.

Daniel Dimitri: 14:37

So I was working at McKesson as an executive overseeing a clinical claims product line that was very successful for the company. That was very successful for the company and my future partner approached me, or had someone approach me, and we sat down together and said you know, hey, look, looks like you have a lot of success building products. I have the means and technical resources that they could build software. Maybe we could team up and develop something together. And so I found that very alluring because it was my opportunity to, you know, be my own ceo. My mom and uh avoid a lot of this red tape and he's like I'll, you know, I'll give you the money and the resources, but I'll be hands off and let you run with it. It was perfect at that time considering where I was and what I was going through so, uh, so many years ago was this.

Daniel Dimitri: 15:23

oh, this is like 2016,. So eight years ago, right. And when I first joined him, I had an idea of what I was going to do. But then later on meeting the team and the resources and Explorer, and I realized that I should probably pivot to something that the software developers had a little bit more experience with versus me trying to explain something totally foreign to them, little bit more experience with versus me trying to explain something totally foreign to them. And so we found this 340B pharmacy niche, which was similar to my clinical claims background at McKesson, but it's on the pharmacy side, and I said, okay, this seems to be lining up and did a lot of interviews with health systems and about the competition out there and it didn't seem like this was Explain without real technical 3 340B through our listeners.

Marc Bernstein: 16:09

What does that mean?

Daniel Dimitri: 16:10

Sure. So to keep it really simple, in the pharmacy world there's all sorts of rebates that you don't, like the average person never even sees. When a doctor prescribes a drug, they get all sorts of government rebates or manufacturer rebates, and it's very compliance-driven. So you need a big, complex software system that takes all the claims, runs it through a rules engine and determines what's eligible for rebates versus what's not to keep it super simple. This is for the pharmacies themselves For the pharmacy and the health systems and the hospitals, and the people writing the prescriptions.

Daniel Dimitri: 16:44

Everyone gets a little bit of a rebate cut Right, got it. And so, again, just keeping it simple, very complex system. So that's what it is and that's what we ended up building. And so I was interviewing a lot of different health systems and saying, hey, what do you think of the vendors you're using? And it seemed like none of them were really happy, and there was a lot of competition out there. There was like 40 other vendors out there across the country servicing.

Daniel Dimitri: 17:10

And that made me realize something that I read in a Steve Jobs biography book that when he jumped in, like the MP3 players, he said there were so many players in it and no one was doing it right. It's only when someone's doing it right there's limited to like. Just like the. You know, everyone's getting either an iPhone or a Samsung, right, there's not like 20 different phones you choose from. And so if you see a lot of competition, that means no one's doing the ipod. That turned that around, that's right. So that's, that was the example he used in in the book. Yeah, so I said, all right, let's, let's go this direction. And we, we jumped in and you know, uh, here we are today.

Marc Bernstein: 17:46

So I well, a couple of things. So I assume that, because I know you had, ultimately you had a successful exit. We'll talk about that. But to get there that means you must have taken a lot of the market share in that space. Tell me about that. How did that happen, you know? How did you gain that market share and how did you know what kind of challenges did you face in doing that?

Daniel Dimitri: 18:09

because I know I'm sure there were several yeah, so the the hard so you can build all you want, like the wonderful products and services. But it's very hard to get that first customer to sign up right, like because these things what we do is they're really big, complex systems and the role that they play on the bottom line of like a hospital or a clinic is huge. It usually ends up being in the top three revenue generators for the organization. So no one's going to want to take a chance on someone new and they mess up and if you're not compliant you could lose your rebate status and then you go bankrupt.

Daniel Dimitri: 18:48

Compliant, you could lose your rebate status and then you go bankrupt. Or if you are compliant but you don't capture all the revenue opportunity, they could go bankrupt and close their door. So the stakes are super high. So the first hardest thing is to get that first customer to take a shot on you, and then that second and third. But once you've got three customers because a lot of times when you do the sales process they say okay, can you give me three references? Right, right.

Announcer: 19:09

And when you got zero, that's hard. Then when you get one. You're like, oh, I got one Is one, okay, and they're like I don't know, but once you get three then you're like only three references.

Daniel Dimitri: 19:19

I got so many, no problem right, because you know they only want three and that's when the ball really started rolling towards our favor, starting with, you know, the smallest opportunities out there, right, and then you get the medium size take a chance on you, and then the large, and then the jumbos and we're now. You know, we start off like 40 competitors. There's maybe seven at best now in the market and can you talk about how, what kind of?

Marc Bernstein: 19:46

you know of that what are you 20 of the market? Are you, are you some?

Daniel Dimitri: 19:51

it's hard to say exactly because we don't have like our competitions, uh, but we hear from like channel partners that we're the fastest growing in the country, uh, and we're definitely in the top four, like at minimum in the top four at this point so I confuse people with.

Marc Bernstein: 20:05

I told them you had an exit strategy, but you're also talking about we cause you're still active with the company, so let's talk about that. How did the exit strategy happen, how did the exit happen, and where are you today?

Daniel Dimitri: 20:19

Yes, so we did do an exit. It was really to take some chips off the table, just to be frank. You know we grew this business and so we took some chips off the table, but I still own a healthy percentage of the company and I'm still incredibly excited to be the CEO and executing the vision that we started with across the next number of years and you have a partner who I assume is private equity at this point.

Daniel Dimitri: 20:40

Yes, aqualine is the private equity firm that purchased the majority share of the company. They're absolutely wonderful. I heard so many horror stories about-.

Marc Bernstein: 20:49

Well, I brought it up because I was going to say I hear the horror stories all the time and I know you have a positive experience.

Daniel Dimitri: 20:54

Right, yeah, and so I was apprehensive. To be honest, at the beginning I was like all right, I want to take some chips off the table, but this is dangerous because I still own a good chunk of the company If these guys come in and mess it up.

Marc Bernstein: 21:04

But they really it sounds like that's the kind of company that's pretty easy to mess up.

Daniel Dimitri: 21:09

if they were very hands-on, yes yeah, I think what happens and it's very wise of them One. I'm dealing with a very intelligent board. You know they're really sharp and fun, Like we're getting along just great, and if you're a winning horse, they leave you alone, right, and they're just trying to give you suggestions. Hey, you want to look right, but keep doing what you're doing. They didn't overhaul the company. We still have the same phenomenal leaders that started the company with me are still with me today and we're crushing it. But if you're not doing well, then they're buying you to take out the parts they like and remove the parts they don't, and mix and meld, and they're not doing that side with us. So we've got a great relationship.

Marc Bernstein: 21:51

One of the things I know you had before the exit which was partial exit, and after was culture. I know that's really important to you. Talk a minute about the importance of culture in your company and what you've created there, absolutely.

Daniel Dimitri: 22:06

So you know, I'm doing this for two reasons. One, to improve my podcast skills it's the future, I'm new to this and the second reason is to give back.

Marc Bernstein: 22:14

You're doing great. By the way, I told you you'd be a star. Roger agrees Roger's orange.

Daniel Dimitri: 22:19

Thank you Roger. Thank you Roger.

Marc Bernstein: 22:21

Roger Marley, thank you for being here.

Daniel Dimitri: 22:23

You want to give back a little bit right? Just like I've learned from listening to so many podcast CEOs who volunteer their time to give information and share, and one thing I'll share is this so I learned a lot in that last year where I was saying when I was in McCaskill I was really not in a good environment. I learned the damage of a toxic environment, not only to the health of the company, because you're not getting the best. It's kind of like the people that know politics and climbing a ladder for their own self-interest. They're the ones who end up climbing, not the people who actually produce, actually have great ideas and for the good of the company and if you let that happen, it's only the people that survive are the ones who know how to survive in that kind of environment.

Marc Bernstein: 23:03

So it's not good for the company and you lose all your talent.

Daniel Dimitri: 23:05

And then you lose the talent but also the amount of damage it does to, to the families, like, like, cause you, you, it's no-transcript.

Marc Bernstein: 23:23

So obviously that's great that you run your company, understanding the importance of that.

Daniel Dimitri: 23:28

Right, that's great, and so how you carry yourself and how you create an environment where people can challenge each other in a constructive way. That is healthy. But we're still a team. We're not a family.

Announcer: 23:44

We're a sports team, sports teams that are successful they all bond together.

Daniel Dimitri: 23:48

They're all very tight, but they all know if there's someone who could do a better job than that person, then we want that star running back right. Saquon Barkley, what they did to you guys, right, and the Eagles, right. No one's complaining about Saquon Barkley taking someone else's spot right, so that's right. That that's what we are too, so it's the balance of being that that good, healthy organization that is still a team, a sports team that's competitive right, you mentioned the Eagles.

Marc Bernstein: 24:13

You know they're very strong. One thing they're strong about is I was watching a video this morning or before I came in that, um, the the team culture is they talk constantly about nobody's winning games by themselves, and barkley knows that and aj brown knows that, and jay jalen hurts knows that.

Marc Bernstein: 24:31

I mean, they're all. They're all working together and the best teams and the chiefs are one of those as well that um that are that are really doing that, and it looks like the commanders I said it right this time we're starting to get there, you go.

Marc Bernstein: 24:42

Go that way too um, let's talk about, because we're almost out of time. Believe it or not, dan? Uh, you're. If this were january 30th which is the day we're actually recording this of 2025, if this were the same date in 2028 and you look back on the last three years, what would have to happen in your business life, your personal life, for you to feel that was a successful time in your in your business and personal life?

Daniel Dimitri: 25:08

sure, the um from a business perspective you know what's kind of funny is is um, and I heard um, I think his name was steve chase, the guy who did aol's uh america online, oh you know, and he's a billionaire and he.

Announcer: 25:19

He had a funny interview. He's like you know you first, and I heard I think his name was Steve Chase, the guy who did AOL's America Online. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Daniel Dimitri: 25:21

And he had a funny interview. He's like you know, you first start off, you're running a business and you're working your butt off and everyone's like, oh, you're a schmuck, you're a schmuck, you're a schmuck.

Daniel Dimitri: 25:31

And all of a sudden it gets big and they're like oh, you're a genius, oh, the decision made five years ago is only what shows up today. And the same thing with a company. There are decisions that we have made like three years ago that it takes time to build and it takes time to get market adoption but we're super excited about, and so our other product lines, like we've grown way past 340B. Now we have other product lines and in the next three, four years we're really looking forward to those other product lines that we've launched reach a greater level of maturity, like our 340B side and the way that we're doing something where they're all integrated together. We really believe we've got something incredibly special in the market. And from a family perspective, my wonderful daughter, who's 15, and a freshman, simone Dimitri I only have so many more years left.

Daniel Dimitri: 26:25

Hi, simone, yeah, and she's only a few more years left in the house. So I really want to do my best to maximize those experiences time best you can with a teenage girl right. You are going to get the stiff arm harder than a sick one.

Marc Bernstein: 26:38

Let me know how that. Let me know how that goes. Yeah, I'm doing my best, man, I'm doing my best. No, no, well, actually, I, I have wonderful kids, and my daughter in particular was relatively easy as a teenager. I always say that to her. Um, one last question uh, what do you? What's your favorite book or books?

Daniel Dimitri: 26:55

wow, uh, I love this question. I'm a big reader, I I read non and I love it. Uh, and I'm really into stoicism lately, like I. You know you kind of like you pick a flavor, you catch onto it, you run with it for a while.

Marc Bernstein: 27:06

Uh, I have an interest in that. We talked about this, so tell me your best book to read.

Daniel Dimitri: 27:10

Uh, right now I um the Marcus Aurelius meditations book.

Marc Bernstein: 27:15

Oh, I've started, I've listened in the car, I I just reread it. That's great. I just reread it and I got an app.

Daniel Dimitri: 27:20

It's called like the daily stoic, and so it pops up like a little, and it's not only marcus aurelius, did you do it in the modern language version of that, or modern language, the other one's horrible. Uh yeah, it's tough yeah because really you're trying to get the, the, the deep philosophical lesson yeah, not so much, you know, I'm not, not a studier of right right literature.

Marc Bernstein: 27:39

I tried the original.

Daniel Dimitri: 27:40

It was tough but but the uh. There's an app called the daily stoic. That it's not just marcus, really, it's like like epictetus seneca, like little blurbs, like little two, three sentence blurbs and and and you digest it, you think about it, you know, uh, I think those things are really great well, it's great listen up.

Marc Bernstein: 27:58

We time goes fast and we're out of time, but we got to hear your story and you did a great job. I think you got a big future in podcasts and Roger agrees he's a professional there. So we thank you all for listening today and thanks for being here. Dan, thanks for being here, roger and everybody. Have a great day. Thank you for inviting me.

Daniel Dimitri: 28:20

My pleasure.

Announcer: 28:31

We hope you enjoyed your time with Founders Forum and that you found value to take with you throughout your day. Join us again next week for another episode of Founders Forum on WXKB 1039 HD2.