Announcer: 0:00

The following programming is sponsored by Marc J Bernstein. The views expressed do not necessarily reflect the views of this station, its management or Beasley Media Group. Entrepreneur, founder, author and financial advisor, Marc Bernstein helps high-performing business owners turn their visions into reality. Through his innovative work and the Forward Focus Forums, Marc connects entrepreneurs to resources that fuel their success. Founders Forum is a radio show and podcast where entrepreneurs share their journeys, revealing the lessons they've learned and the stories behind their success. Join Marc and his guests for a mix of inspiration, valuable insights and a little fun. Now let's dive in.

Marc Bernstein: 0:40

Good morning America. How are you? Do I hear an echo in here? Good morning America.

Sari Greene: 0:43

How are you? Hey, hear an echo in here. Good morning America. How are you?

Marc Bernstein: 0:45

Hey, good morning America.

Marc Bernstein: 0:47

Hey, that was great. I like that. We've never really done that before. So here we are in our last couple of shows, last three shows, actually in southwest Florida. So what we've been doing while we're doing it here is we've been recording a couple shows at a time for future play. So I've got two great guests guests today. And I don't want to forget about roger marley, our engineer in the studio, who, uh, has done a great job. It's been, it's really been fun working with your odds and, uh, we'll do it again next season. Yeah, big thumbs up from roger Roger. So, and we're anyway so our guests. We're going to have some fun.

Marc Bernstein: 1:27

Today.

Marc Bernstein: 1:28

Our guests are two more people I've met while I'm in Babcock Ranch and I keep talking about Babcock Ranch because there's a lot to talk about and they may even want to add to the conversation, but it's the hometown of tomorrow and it's a lot of cool things going on there in southwest florida and we all found out about it in different ways and and I think we're all loving it there and I'm loving it here and can't wait to come back after our, after we return north to philadelphia for a while.

Marc Bernstein: 1:54

So, uh, we have in the with us this morning. That was Sari and Jason, and I'll introduce them formally in a minute. But our topic of the day because it keeps coming up every day that I'm talking to people in different ways is AI, and I've done a lot of shows on AI and we've had AI founders on here and they're advocates for AI and we've also talked about the dangers of AI. But I just want to get your impressions because since I've done it, it's been a few months and things have evolved a lot since then, both on the business side and on the innovation side and on the regulatory side of it, and I just want to get your thoughts. And Sari, as you'll find out, is a technology person. Let's start with you.

Sari Greene: 2:34

Sure. So you know, when I think about AI right now, I just think about it as a problem-solving tool, which is really what it is. Right, it's leading to innovation, but you know, it's a lot like the car was or the Internet. It's a tool right now. Tomorrow, though, with the next generation of AI, which is known as artificial general intelligence, it will really start rivaling human intelligence without intervention, and then, ultimately, the theoretical is artificial super intelligence, which surpasses human intelligence. So when I'm thinking about AI now, I'm really thinking about therails. All right, what do we do in terms of governance? What do we do in terms of ethics? And then, how are our adversaries using ai in ways that potentially seek to harm us?

Marc Bernstein: 3:15

that was great.

Marc Bernstein: 3:15

You covered all my questions all in one yeah, most of it was way over my head, to be honest, but but the last part that you talked about surpassing human intelligence is the conversation I was having yesterday, because I've been told that's less than five years away, which is pretty great I think a lot of that really depends on on the development of supercomputers that can, they can handle that, and with chips in flux right now, who knows what the time frame actually is right and and what's happening in the research universities that could have an impact as well.

Sari Greene: 3:46

Um but, but it'll come, it'll come, and so that's why these, the guardrails and the ethics components of it, are so critical right now to be talking about Jason what?

Marc Bernstein: 3:55

what is within your range to talk about?

Jason Sfire: 3:57

yeah, no, what's interesting is and actually sari kind of like highlighted something that I've experienced recently, because in my business in the you know, as you're going to introduce me soon in, in the commercial real estate business, we don't have a ton right now to do with AI, but I have kind of an interesting story that the guardrail piece is super important. And I would say for sure, sari, because I have a couple of young children still and I've seen how they have started to use AI on their own, even for schoolwork or things like that, and it's causing problems even on such a small micro level like that where at home. Imagine what it can do to impact business for entrepreneurs like ourselves if there aren't guardrails that are put out in the future.

Sari Greene: 4:38

I would agree. I think it introduces a level of bias we have to be very careful about.

Jason Sfire: 4:42

You're probably right there.

Marc Bernstein: 4:43

Well, a lot of good information in that short period of time, because we have to move on, because we all know how quick 28 minutes goes on the show, so I do want to introduce them.

Marc Bernstein: 4:51

So, um. So I'll introduce Jason first, because we'll do his longer introduction on his uh on his show. But, um, uh, Jason Sfire, as I say correctly, perfectly cool. Jason wheels Sfire. That's it and you'll understand the wheels. Jason Sfire, did I say it correctly? Perfectly Cool, Jason Wheels' Sfire. That's it, and you'll understand the wheels better in a bit when you hear his story. But also, I think, a wheels on Sfire, which is pretty cool. Yeah, that's kind of how I remember it. So, anyway, he's president and owner of multiple family-owned businesses, primarily called Under the Fidelity Group, and when we get to his show you'll hear a lot more about that.

Marc Bernstein: 5:27

Sari Greene, as you might have already figured out, as a cyber security entrepreneur, she's also an author, educator, investor, community activist, um and um she serves on. Currently her company was called sage sage, sage data Security, sage Data Security. You'll hear she no longer owns the company but she's very active, serving on the Bangor Maine Savings Bank Board of Directors and chairs the Enterprise Risk Management Committee of that. She was appointed by the Governor of Maine to the Maine Gambling Control Board and served as election official for the city of South Portland, maine. Sari is an NACD board fellow and has earned numerous tech and cybersecurity-related certifications, and she's an enthusiastic traveler and particularly an avid sailor, which is an interesting part of her story which hopefully we can get to. I know it'll come into it and also she's an active Rotarian, so welcomeari, welcome thank you.

Marc Bernstein: 6:27

Thank you, glad to be here great to have you both here today. So, Sari um you're. It's interesting how you became an entrepreneur and why don't you tell us from the beginning how that started?

Sari Greene: 6:38

sure. So I think it started somewhere around kindergarten when I decided I needed to raise some money and, um, instead of doing lemonade, I thought, well, what do we have a lot? Of inventory of. And in my house my parents were big users of dry cleaners so we had a lot of hangers and I thought everybody needs hangers and we have them, so my grandparents were taking care of me.

Marc Bernstein: 6:57

We just moved in.

Sari Greene: 6:58

I wish you were around now Right right, I could have used those a few years ago, when I moved into our place too, I set up my card table and my little sign five cents a hanger and took every piece of clothing, I think, in the household off their hangers and brought them out to the front. And my grandparents were a little appalled and said you can't do that. And I was like I was always bossy, even as a little kid, and I was like I can, I can and come home and see what your daughter's doing. And so he raced home His office was five minutes or so from the house, Came in, saw what I was doing I think, maybe a little embarrassed, Told me I had to count how many hangers I had, account for my entire inventory, Paid me the five cents per hanger for my inventory, with the caveat that I brought it into the house and put everything back on the hangers. And I think that was my first of many entrepreneurial pursuits.

Marc Bernstein: 7:47

That might've been your best, because you got your father to pay for something that he already owned.

Sari Greene: 7:50

That's right. Yep, that's good.

Announcer: 7:53

Pretty cool.

Marc Bernstein: 7:57

And your father was a doctor, but he was an entrepreneur.

Sari Greene: 7:59

He was an entrepreneur, he had his own practice, yeah absolutely so.

Marc Bernstein: 8:03

how did that you know? How did your education bring you to starting a business?

Sari Greene: 8:06

and your education and your experience so it turns out that I'm not a particularly good employee but I'm a great boss.

Announcer: 8:16

I think I've noticed that in a little time. There you go.

Sari Greene: 8:18

So I've got very definite ideas and I feel very strongly about them ideas and feel very strongly about them. And so I, you know, I worked for other people for a while and then moved into co-founding a technical education center and then, after I left that, I wanted to do something else and it was 2000 and 2002, 2001 and 2002, and decided to launch a data security business, which was an interesting time to do it, because when I would say to people I'm launching a data security business, you know what they said to me? They all said what's that?

Announcer: 8:52

What's that.

Sari Greene: 8:53

And now you know, 25-something years later, when I said to people I had a data security company, they're like oh yeah, that was a good time to do it. Great idea, yeah, everybody you know, of course we all use the term cybersecurity, not data security, but you know it was definitely a good time.

Marc Bernstein: 9:06

Everyone talks about data security yeah, it was really the time to do it. Interesting. So how did you go? I know you had a job for a bit before you started your company, so tell us how that progression worked came back and it was time to do something new.

Sari Greene: 9:21

And I'd been in tech my whole career and I was getting more and more concerned about the amount of data that we were all collecting and were we protecting that appropriately? Did we even know how to protect it appropriately? And because I had an education side background at that point, as well as tech, I thought, you know, it'd be really good if we had a company that taught people how to protect their data. And this is also the beginning of the regulatory era where we had HIPAA for the Privacy and Security of Medical Data and GLBA Gramm-Lidge-Bliley Act for the Privacy and Security of Financial Data. So I said I'm going to establish a training center, primarily to teach everyone, from executives or decision makers to folks who are putting their hands on the Sfire, how to protect the data.

Marc Bernstein: 10:16

And it was called Sage, presumably because you're sharing wisdom.

Sari Greene: 10:20

Actually, not so because one of the first people who were working with me was a dear friend who was in sales and her name was Allison Earnhardt and her husband said if we go, Sari, Allison Greene Earnhardt we have.

Announcer: 10:33

Sage.

Sari Greene: 10:33

And that's how we came up with Sage Data Security. And so, yeah, we started with a three-classroom training center.

Marc Bernstein: 10:40

It works because it's all about information.

Sari Greene: 10:42

Yeah, it worked great, but a three classroom training center and just launched and went forward with the idea of you know, do good, be good, Do good work and be good to your employees, to your customers and to their customers.

Marc Bernstein: 10:56

And I know you wanted to serve the community as well. That's part of the be good.

Sari Greene: 10:59

Yeah, absolutely. Well, you know, I always I've thought, from the beginning of data security or cybersecurity really is a civic duty, right it's, you know, and the way we would talk to our clients, which are primarily financial institutions and hospitals, were that their patients and their customers were sharing very private data with them, right, and so by them protecting it, it was really a matter of honoring the public trust, and that's really the way I've always thought about it.

Marc Bernstein: 11:24

But you morphed into the company, morphed into something else.

Sari Greene: 11:27

It did. So we thought initially we would do about 80% training, about 20% consulting. But we listened to our clients and our clients said gee, you know, we really need people to come and do the work you're doing. So we listened to them and we did started with setting up chief information security officer services for them. Then we moved into threat hunting and we created one of the first major threat hunting applications in the country and started really being able to be very proactive to look for anomalous or suspicious activity and over time all our classrooms closed up and turned into really into workspaces and by the end we were probably doing maybe 5% education and really about 85% services, 95% services.

Marc Bernstein: 12:11

Whenever I talk to entrepreneurs, I always talk about that.

Marc Bernstein: 12:14

Being an entrepreneur it's not a smooth ride Jason will be able to speak to that yeah, a little bit, a little bit me too and almost everyone I have on the show, but not sari, when I first talked to her, because she said, you know, actually things went along pretty smoothly. But we drove here this morning together from babcock ranch and she said, you know, I was thinking about it. There was one really challenge I have and I'm thinking we have a couple minutes, we'll just introduce it, but I think we'll get more into it after the break but there was one challenge that you did face which could have been could have, you know, really hurt the company in a major way. It didn't end up doing that, but do you want to mention it real quick.

Marc Bernstein: 12:55

I think we'll have to finish.

Sari Greene: 12:56

Yeah, so we brought in some investors. We were, let's say, 2012,. So we were eight years, 10 years into the company when we first brought in some investors. And bringing in investors brought in some set of challenges that we can talk about.

Marc Bernstein: 13:10

That sounds great. So let's take a quick break, a commercial break, and we'll be back on Founders Forum in just a minute.

Announcer: 13:18

Are you looking to scale your business and drive exceptional growth? Imagine having an expert team on demand that combines world-class recruitment experts and industry-leading next-gen AI to help you hire top candidates faster. Introducing JoinTalent seamlessly augmenting your in-house talent function with expertise tailored to your unique business needs. Our team are experts in hiring the best talent for your sector, regardless of your position on the growth journey. Jointalent's proprietary AI accelerates delivery by instantly searching and indexing billions of data points to find and engage the best talent. Whether you're a startup with limited in-house talent resources or a head of talent for a global enterprise looking to ramp up and down your existing team, we've got you covered. Our solutions are designed to fuel your growth, ensuring you have the right talent at the right time. Join Talent, Driving business performance and scaling growth with the perfect blend of people, AI and innovation, Ready to elevate your hiring capability. Visit jointalentnet today.

Marc Bernstein: 14:34

Hey, we're back on Founders Forum with our guest today, sari Greene, and we have Jason Sfire in the studio with us, who will please listen to his show part one and part two as well, because it's quite a story. So, sari, we're starting to talk about. You got investors in your company and they presented challenges. Let's talk about that.

Sari Greene: 14:53

So they did. So I initially bootstrapped the company, so it's all on me, let's talk about that. So they did, you know. So I initially bootstrapped the company, so it's all on me. Built a great leadership team. We were profitable from about year three on. Things were going really well. But, as I mentioned earlier, we had this threat hunting application and we really needed to enhance it and it meant that I wanted to do a multi-million dollar build out of the application itself.

Marc Bernstein: 15:17

Just describe real quick what threat hunting is so.

Sari Greene: 15:20

threat hunting means that we're taking information that's logged by all the various different devices in a network, whether it's your Sfire or your computer, or an application or a database and be able to look at the log of activities to determine if there's any suspicious or anomalous activity. So it's someone trying to harm you.

Sari Greene: 15:39

Which I would think is a common thing today right, very common thing, very common thing and for everybody, not everybody. But we really wanted to do a major build out and we were at the early stage of that, I would assume, as well.

Sari Greene: 15:53

Well, we actually started that in 2007, and we had done our own investments, but then we were sort of at this launch point. If we were going to compete nationwide and globally, we really needed to do more, and so I made the decision to take on investors, opposed to borrowing money, and so we ended up working with a search firm. And a search firm actually comes out of Stanford, which is investors, or generally people who have been operators of a company say they're going to invest in smaller companies to help them grow, but they bring in their own management, and that management are generally MBAs straight out of school, straight out of Wharton or Stanford or Harvard, and they come in to really grow the company, if you will, but more often than not, they're coming in to fix a problem, and we didn't have a problem to fix right. We just really needed the capital and the guidance, particularly from the investors, not as much from the MBAs. Investors not as much from the MBAs.

Sari Greene: 16:55

Unfortunately, they came in with a lot of hubris, guns blaring and feeling like they really knew everything they needed to know about the business, without even ever talking to us or to our clients, and the best way I can describe it is our two young MBAs came in in November and it was January before they met with my leadership team and that really caused a lot of problems. They were doing their spreadsheets and figuring out what they needed to do and it was a really I was there for that year and it was a really really tough year on all of us. And by the end of the year so it was in November, so by the following November, the company was no longer profitable and the entire leadership team always been profitable and the entire leadership team was really in a mutiny state.

Sari Greene: 17:37

They were like we just can't do this anymore. So I was also an investor in this part of the company and I walked into our board. I sat on the board of directors and said these guys have to go, and we had a brief discussion about it and they said okay, they're gone. They said okay, they're gone and we had a very tumultuous year, but at the end of that year they were gone. I came back in full time to run the company again and then ultimately, we promoted leadership from within to continue on as senior leadership.

Jason Sfire: 18:08

So, Sarah, it sounds like it was. Not only did they come in and make some changes, but they almost changed the culture of your company in that short year. It was almost like your company culture had shifted.

Sari Greene: 18:19

Yeah, they didn't make too many changes, but the culture is absolutely right. We were a team and the best way to think about us as a team is our end-year bonuses. Everybody got the same bonus. It wasn't based on your salary, it wasn't based on your job position. We were a team and we needed every one of us right to work together to provide the services that we did to our clients.

Jason Sfire: 18:38

Yeah, that makes sense.

Sari Greene: 18:38

And they came in. You know there's a hierarchy, right, they're way up here, the rest of us are peons. But just you know, if you don't have a sense of curiosity, you can't grow right. If you don't know, what do people need? What do your employees need? What do your customers need? What's happening out in the world?

Jason Sfire: 18:53

No, it's a great perspective. Yeah it's a great perspective, a great lesson for our listeners as well.

Marc Bernstein: 18:57

100% we talk culture. Company culture is one of the probably the number one topic that we talk about on the show, so you were pretty firm about what had to be done next and you did it.

Sari Greene: 19:09

We did it Absolutely.

Marc Bernstein: 19:11

And was that a when you had to go to the board and present your argument about why these guys should be out? You must have been pretty well prepared for that and pretty powerful in your presentation.

Sari Greene: 19:23

Well, I also served on the board, so this had been an ongoing conversation, but it was really. I don't think there was a choice. Right, we're going to lose the leadership team. We're going to stop making money Right.

Sari Greene: 19:33

You know, and because I was willing to step back in. It was just really a fait accompli. But it was a stressful year and I will always be very, very grateful to my leadership team, to really the entire team, to sticking it out. You know, when I'd say, come on, we got to keep doing this, he stuck with me and I will always be grateful to them for that.

Marc Bernstein: 19:53

I hear a lot of these stories, though you fade out complete and you think it's just obvious this had to be done. But you hear investors and private equity firms and venture capitalists coming in all the time and not necessarily doing what's rational in the names of egos or in the names of how their cash should best be used. I guess I wasn't going to let it end any other way, that's exactly what I wanted to get to.

Jason Sfire: 20:17

That got back to the fact that you're a better boss than an employee.

Sari Greene: 20:20

A better boss. I can be a force of nature when necessary.

Marc Bernstein: 20:25

Your life now, since the company has changed and you're still very busy I know from my only few weeks of knowing you and how busy you are I want to ask you we ask everybody your future vision, your three-year vision. So, if we're, this is April of 2028 and we're all here talking what would have to happen over that three-year period for you to feel that that was a successful year in your life and in your activities?

Sari Greene: 20:51

I think it's you know from so, from professionally, you know. So we did sell. Eventually the company was sold and acquired by a public company, so we had a really good exit. And then I currently teach, right, so I teach cybersecurity professionals who are looking to enhance their career and earn certifications. So when I think about sort of professional vision, you know, I've always really thought about the fact that in cyber we live in pretty turbulent times, right that we have an external enemy those who seek to do us harm but now we have an internal enemy, I think as well, and that's those who choose to no longer support our safeguards and our defense mechanisms. So my mission really is to continue to mentor and encourage and really lift up the next generation of cybersecurity professionals who are committed to protecting their companies and their communities and their families and our country.

Marc Bernstein: 21:44

And I know that you do that out of service, because you don't need to do it at this point, and it's not just because it's what you know, it's because you think it's a really imminent threat to communities and to the world, and that's why you're doing this.

Sari Greene: 21:59

Absolutely, absolutely.

Marc Bernstein: 22:00

I think that's pretty amazing. So we always have closing round questions, and my first question for you is what book are you currently reading?

Sari Greene: 22:11

So I'm currently reading the First Ladies, which is the story about Eleanor Roosevelt and Mary McLeod Bethune. It's historical fiction. I'm not usually a fan of historical fiction I'm a big nonfiction reader but this book is really. It's fascinating because it talks about how these two very, very powerful women, in both in their own rights, really navigated some very, very brutally honest conversations and ultimately cemented an amazing friendship.

Marc Bernstein: 22:40

Who wrote that book? Because I've heard about it. Oh, you're going to stump me.

Sari Greene: 22:45

It's the same two women who wrote the Personal Librarian.

Marc Bernstein: 22:48

Yeah, because I've heard about the book. I've heard about the book and there's a lot of interesting things written about First Ladies and their interactions that are accurate.

Sari Greene: 22:55

actually, it's really interesting behind-the-scenes stuff, One being the First Lady of the United States and the other really being considered the First Lady of what she would refer to at the point of Negro population, or what we refer to as African American or black population.

Marc Bernstein: 23:12

Very cool and I know you have a favorite song, but you've been holding me in suspense about what it is.

Sari Greene: 23:19

Well, you know I was thinking about that and it's not actually a favorite song. I love to sing in community, I love when people get together and sing and I do a lot of keynoting and I always make my audience sing a song. I'll create a song with lyrics to a tune that they might know, so it might be like If I had a Hammer. Or this Land is your Land right? Arlo Guthrie, no Arlo Guthrie. Woody Guthrie or Pete Seeger or Hebrew songs like you know, ose Shalom or even Sweet Caroline right that everybody can go bum, bum, bum.

Sari Greene: 23:47

I just love, I love, I love when people Sing Ose Shalom for Jason.

Marc Bernstein: 23:51

Yeah, I will.

Sari Greene: 23:52

That I love when people sing in a round in harmony. Just rousing you and me both. To me that's the best. You mentioned that I sail a lot and I would do night watches and I always knew that these were the songs I loved because to keep myself really focused and stuff, I'd be busy singing these songs. So it's not a song, it's just being able to sing.

Marc Bernstein: 24:14

It's songs, it's being able able to sing it's songs, it's being able to sing together. Well, you've certainly struck my heart with that, because I'm all about the song, both in terms of what I do as a musician. But I'm singing all the time For some people like that, some don't.

Sari Greene: 24:28

I love it. I love singing with people. You should come to Bat.

Marc Bernstein: 24:31

Pop. Jams love singing people exactly in the park, we sing and play guitars and and I, a lot of people look down on it because you know we have different levels of playing there and some people are like, wow, this isn't really jam sessions, these are, we're just reading chords and singing songs. But I love that.

Sari Greene: 24:45

I love doing it with people at all levels of it I think the most beautiful instrument is really the human voice, right?

Marc Bernstein: 24:51

yeah, that's cool yeah, funny, you say that too because I've always been a musician and a non-singer but I've been taking voice lessons for the last few years because I realized that I can sing if I choose to, and um, and you know something, it's and there's and there's a. Some people come by it real naturally and uh, you know, first band I was ever in, a guy had never read a note of music in his life, but he just had a voice and he had basically perfect pitch. We could tune our guitars. We'd say sing the first note of this song and we could tune our guitars to him.

Jason Sfire: 25:23

I only say yeah, because that's how my daughter is. She actually leads worship at multiple churches back in Illinois. Oh cool, yeah. So she's never read a note of music in her life, but she just picked up singing.

Marc Bernstein: 25:34

She got after it. You ever sing with Tom. You're upstairs neighbor.

Sari Greene: 25:37

Yep, yep, but you know, I think it's even more than that, I think when people sing, particularly people who aren't professional singers, there's a vulnerability, and when you expose that vulnerability to each other, you just build something really very special.

Jason Sfire: 25:49

There's something powerful when people come together around something. It's almost like a rally, absolutely. You know, uh, just gather around to sing, or praise or whatever they're doing.

Marc Bernstein: 26:02

It's just, it's cool. There's power in that. I would agree with you. Question about it um, we so we don't talk about religion a lot, but I know you're.

Marc Bernstein: 26:06

You're a church guy, Jason yeah, for sure and you'd mentioned no session alone, which is a synagogue song. I I was very active with music in the synagogue, playing guitar and doing all that, and really I realized that's such an important part of my spirituality and that sort of changed and I don't have the same connection there anymore. So I'm actually considering and I'm affiliating with a black synagogue in Philadelphia that has all the tunes but do it in a very kind of spiritual setting and I've actually sat in with them and with the band there and sang and it's really uplifting. So it's so, it's a very interesting experience. Either of you have any closing comments or thoughts?

Sari Greene: 26:51

we have about half a minute left well, this is a great conversation and I can't wait to continue and hear your story no, I'm excited.

Jason Sfire: 26:58

I I'm actually really intrigued to actually learn a little bit more about all the stuff sari was talking about, because it's so kind of over my head from what I do. But I know that it's it's cutting edge and it's forefront of what we need to do, especially when we get to what my three-year vision is. I think it's going to be important for me to kind of understand that. So it was enlightening for me to hear that kind of firsthand.

Marc Bernstein: 27:16

You should do something at the hatchery. They have these mix and mingles. You should talk there. Yeah, and people like us could attend and hear that.

Jason Sfire: 27:23

It would be a great idea. Yeah, us cybersecurity laymen can come listen.

Marc Bernstein: 27:28

The hatchery, by the way, is the workspace, the co-workspace at Babcock Ranch, which people come from all over outside the community actually to come work there. It's pretty interesting. Well, listen, it's great to have you both here today and great to have all of you listening to us today, and we always seem to have interesting conversations one way or the other on Founders Forum. So thanks for listening and we'll see you again next week on Founders Forum and have a great day.

Announcer: 27:57

We hope you enjoyed your time with Founders Forum and that you found value to take with you throughout your day. Join us again next week for another episode of Founders Forum on WXKB 1039 HD2. Sponsored by Marc J Bernstein. The views expressed do not necessarily reflect the views of this station, its management or Beasley Media Group.