Announcer: 0:00

The following programming is sponsored by Marc J Bernstein. The views expressed do not necessarily reflect the views of this station, its management or Beasley Media Group. Entrepreneur, founder, author and financial advisor, Marc Bernstein helps high-performing business owners turn their visions into reality. Through his innovative work and the Forward Focus. Forums, Marc connects entrepreneurs to resources that fuel their success. Forums Marc connects entrepreneurs to resources that fuel their success. Founders Forum is a radio show and podcast where entrepreneurs share their journeys, revealing the lessons they've learned and the stories behind their success. Join Marc and his guests for a mix of inspiration, valuable insights and a little fun. Now let's dive in.

Marc Bernstein: 0:41

Good morning America. How are you? I thought I'd shake up the way I say that today a little bit. It was like good morning America. How are you? I'm good, how are you? It's always sunny in Philadelphia. Well, today it's sunny in Philadelphia. Anyway, it's a beautiful day, right, right, Bobby. Bobby's my guy Beautiful.

Marc Bernstein: 1:00

So I'll introduce Bobby in a little bit, but we're going to start, as we always do, with a little informal conversation about. You know, it was a beautiful morning and I always think of this topic of the day. I can never decide on it until the day of, because it depends what's going on around me, what's going on in the world, etc. But this morning, because it was a beautiful, sunny day, I was thinking about mornings and I was thinking about people's morning routines day. I was thinking about mornings and I was thinking about people's morning routines, because everybody, I always find out that entrepreneurs in particular seem to have morning routines. Bobby's got an interesting story about that. So I'll just tell you that I do things like exercise, stretch, meditate, try to do my little nutritional routine in the morning. You know, try to do my little nutritional routine in the morning, and but I'm less interested in mine. Let's talk about yours, Bobby. I know you had one. We're going to talk about what it is today.

Bobby Reed: 1:53

Yeah, that's really what it is is. I'm still trying to figure out my morning routine. I have a. I used to have a very robust morning routine and now, since I've had two children, that morning routine has changed to whatever it is that happens in the morning, whether that be my son wakes up at 6 am and he wants to eat chocolate chips and watch cartoons, or he wants to play something, or if we all want to sleep in and have a crazy morning trying to get out the door, which happened this morning.

Marc Bernstein: 2:25

So I can relate to those times because I know that was the time that my morning routine was the most changed. So it's not really a routine, it's kind of like whatever happens. So I know you used to do things like exercise and read the paper.

Bobby Reed: 2:41

Oh yeah, yeah. I used to wake up every morning, I read the New York Times, I'd go work out, ride the Peloton, or before that it was Flywheel, it's just no longer in business but I would ride the stationary bike 45 minutes, watch the news, different channels, whatever it was, and then have my favorite breakfast in all of America and all of the world Cafe Le Monde. I would go there. It's in Northern Liberties so I would sit there and talk with the owner, gabby, and just some other friends there, and then I'd be in the office by 9, sometimes 9.30 if I got to Yappin at the cafe. But yeah, work out, read and then look at the weather, see what other meetings I have, kind of create a plan for for the day and then go eat a great breakfast.

Marc Bernstein: 3:28

So do you have an alternative? Since you can't do it first thing in the morning, do you find a way to get exercise in? Do you find a way to plan your day otherwise, or is it all just as it comes?

Bobby Reed: 3:35

Yeah, I mean the working out thing is definitely it's more going than coming at this point. So hopefully, I mean my son is. I have two sons, one is seven months, the other is three and a half. So the seven month old, hopefully in another few months he can start sleeping through the night and then I can get back to waking up early and working out at least. But I definitely still pick and choose. I mean I take time to read as much as I can in the morning, maybe five or 10 minutes, and it comes in little spurts and then definitely or now my routine is before bed, which is not maybe the best thing, but I definitely go to bed and, you know, go to bed early and I'll read, you know, as much as I can you do.

Marc Bernstein: 4:17

Squeeze that in squeeze when you can, yeah exactly, but now I'm like falling asleep.

Marc Bernstein: 4:20

It's like I'm back in college, like trying to cram for the test that you know I'm laughing because, you know, I remember those days well and I remember when I was so happy when I could get back into my routine. Yeah, and, as I shared with you, you get older, some. There are other things now, including my dog, that disrupt my routine now. So so, so arlo, who I love very much, and he's some of the inspiration between good morning america, since Arlo Guthrie sang the song.

Bobby Reed: 4:47

City of New Orleans. I was this actually, I just had this thought talking about routines and morning routines, and this maybe has something to do one of my main clients, wawa, we just did a commercial about. It's called Mornings and it's about your morning routine going to Wawa, getting your cup of coffee and doing all that stuff. So, yeah, sorry, harmless plug, but you're saying this.

Marc Bernstein: 5:06

Well, that's actually a great way to work right into your introduction, because we mentioned Wawa in there. And in Philadelphia everyone knows what Wawa is, but not everybody listening may know that, so I'll explain that in a second. But Bobby Reed is the founder and executive producer of Loaded Pixel. Great producer of Loaded Pixel, great name, a full-service video production company based in Philadelphia With over 20 years of experience in live sports, branded content and commercial campaigns. Bobby has worked across everything from Super Bowl broadcast to food spots and then also for beloved brands such as Wawa.

Marc Bernstein: 5:40

So Wawa is like a convenience store that in Philadelphia, everybody knows it. Now Philadelphia, everybody knows it. Now Florida, everybody knows it. And along the East Coast they're starting to know it and pretty soon they'll be national. So if you don't know Wawa, it's coming to your town soon, most likely. And, by the way, sorry, I haven't finished. So Bobby is known for combining creative instincts with production savvy. He's built a company that moves fast, thinks big and skips the unnecessary layers. I love that. Whether he's directing behind the camera or guiding clients through the creative process, Bobby's all about turning ideas into visuals that hit. What a great, exciting kind of business. So, Bobby, I don't want to give it away because I but I know you were sort of meant to do what you're doing. So you tell, tell us how that all started and how you got to where you are today with your pretty successful business.

Bobby Reed: 6:36

Thanks, yeah, I had a. I had a teacher an English teacher, no less and I was never, was never, still not a great writer who wanted to get me into. He was starting a audio visual class in high school and he said as a junior, you can get into this senior only program. And I said that sounds good to me. And then, from that moment, he handed me a camera and I fell in love with you know, making stuff, and I played sports my whole life and I knew I had to combine sports and video production and that was that was it. There was no other option for me, really, and so my uh entire focus from the age of 15, uh, by the way, I still talk to my this um high school professor, uh teacher that I have is, um, he's like 80 some years old now.

Marc Bernstein: 7:25

He's awesome. Um, yeah, he's awesome. Yeah, it's cool. He's really great, so he's definitely a mentor in your life.

Bobby Reed: 7:27

yeah, mentorship is definitely something that everyone should have. So, yeah, it took me years to track him down, by the way, but anyway, yeah, so it was my sole focus from 15 to get into video and film production and if I could somehow, you know, marry that with sports, that was the only option. I didn't know, I didn't have it. There was no other plan I didn't like. There was, you know, business school. No, nothing, it was just make stuff in sports. That's really it.

Marc Bernstein: 7:53

So two quick comments. One is mention Super Bowl broadcasts. So Bobby's worked at multiple Super Bowls Olympics, wimbledon, us Opens, nba Finals, all-star Games Very, very cool and exciting. I think people love to hear about that.

Bobby Reed: 8:11

Yeah.

Marc Bernstein: 8:11

I'm fun at parties.

Announcer: 8:12

Usually with the guys right. The girls don't really care.

Marc Bernstein: 8:14

Could, care less.

Bobby Reed: 8:17

Exactly Without stereotyping of course. I will say there are plenty of women who find it interesting and ask me more questions than the guys. The guys sometimes get shy. They're like they don't know how to sometimes ask me because they think it's too scary.

Marc Bernstein: 8:32

By the way, I said this this morning to you in prep You're what I call a river person. Yeah, and the great broadcaster Earl Nightingale, who did a lot of kind of self-improvement growth things later in his life. I used to listen to a lot of his tapes this tells you how old they were. We used to listen to tapes in the car but I remember one very specifically, and I've never forgotten this, that he said there's basically, when it comes to motivation, there's two types of people.

Marc Bernstein: 9:10

One are river people, like you're drawn to the river, like you're drawn to something and you're going to do that, no matter what. There's nothing stopping you, Um. And the other is, um, a goals person. So you're a river person and I'm a goals person, um, I used the example I was telling Bobby about it of Bruce Springsteen, who actually has an album called the width of the river. But lately he's been talking a lot about his life and his career and he talked about there was no other option, like I was going to be this or I was going to die, because I had no other skills, I had no other interests. That was going to be it, right. So that's a river person, so you're a river person.

Bobby Reed: 9:39

That is me.

Marc Bernstein: 9:39

Yeah, the Mississippi, whatever the Schuylkill, whatever you want to call me, and Mississippi whatever the school goal, whatever you want to call me, and I, on the other hand, I went to college for music just because I loved music, and I went to law school and became a lawyer for a while, and then I was drawn eventually to financial planning, which means I could have been happy doing a lot of things, but I found something I really liked and I had a vision about it. So I was driven by the goals more so than the particular thing I was doing, and now it's gotten to be really a mission as to what I'm building for, probably the final time, and that's what motivates me. So in the end, we kind of are driven by some of the same things, but how we got there is different, which I think is an interesting way to think about that whole topic.

Marc Bernstein: 10:22

Yeah sure, so okay, so now we know why you got into what you did, when did how and when did you start the business? And tell me about that.

Bobby Reed: 10:30

Yeah, so when I moved to Philadelphia in 2009, I'm from Colorado, so you know I have I don't have the accent. I guess that most people would assume I do, except that you say Colorado.

Marc Bernstein: 10:42

Right, they usually say Colorado.

Bobby Reed: 10:44

Right, but my wife, plenty of other people say, think I have an accent.

Marc Bernstein: 10:48

Anyway, my son lives in Colorado Colorado, I should say.

Bobby Reed: 10:52

There you go, right. Yeah, it's a beautiful place?

Marc Bernstein: 10:54

Yeah, it sure is, I love it.

Bobby Reed: 10:56

So when I moved here, I knew no one, I didn't know anybody and I I I had, I was just hustling for work and I had, and I signed up for this tutor website where I was going to tutor kids or young people in video film production. That's again. That's all I know and knew. So I got one phone call and it was from my, this beautiful family, the West Falls, and they decided to trust me with their kids to teach them stuff. And then eventually, the father, jeff, was like what are you doing with your life? And I was like you know, at that time I had eventually worked my way up at NBC Sports and I was a national editor there and I was loving life. It was the best job I'd ever had. And I was like my life's great I've, you know, I'm doing all the things I thought I would do. I'm this national editor, I have this great family, you know. You know this great little life I have.

Bobby Reed: 11:45

And he said do you ever think about starting a company? And I said, no, I don't know anything about that. And why would I do it? And he said, no, don't worry about it, I'll help you get there. And I said, um, at first I said I'm fine, and then two, two or three months later, nbc gave us the news that they were moving their whole operation up to Connecticut and they offered us less money to go work up there if we wanted to. And I said, well, it doesn't sound like fun, so I went back.

Marc Bernstein: 12:15

You were working out of New York at the time. No, we were in Philly, you were so okay, yeah yeah, nbc Sports.

Bobby Reed: 12:19

So at the time NBC had their own, had a New York office, for sure, right, I was working at Versus, the Versus Network, as an editor, and then Comcast bought NBC and then that swallowed up Versus and then we became the NBC Sports.

Marc Bernstein: 12:31

Network, so you were post-Comcast Got it.

Bobby Reed: 12:34

Yeah, had this decision to make that I want to move to Connecticut to make less money and do this whole you know song and dance with a bunch of you know in a big corporate, you know conglomerate, or I could go talk to this guy, jeff, about maybe starting a company, and I, you know, had dinner with him one night and he was like, yeah, let's do it. And so that was the, that was the genesis. He, you know, he kind of gave me the stepping stones on how to do it.

Marc Bernstein: 12:58

So that's interesting Again, this river goals thing, because a lot of people on the show they say, you know? I say, well, how you know? How did you become an entrepreneur? And they say, oh well, you know, my parents were, my grandparents were, and I just, or I've I've met especially women that like they didn't really have it in their family but they just like they just start setting up shop.

Marc Bernstein: 13:20

I had a woman on recently that when she was like five years old she decided to go in the hanger business. She took all the hangers out of her house and she, she put it out on the street and she was selling them for a nickel a piece. And her grandparents found out and like, better tell, better, tell parents what she did. So they called her father and her father father, like, who admired the fact that she's being entrepreneurial, said I'll tell you what, I'll buy all the hangers and that if you'll put them all away back where you got them. So I said how brilliant she. She got him to pay for something he already owned. You know so, and she's very successful serial entrepreneur. Nice, you know. But so so a lot of these people are goals people because they're going to be an entrepreneur in something and they don't know what.

Bobby Reed: 14:06

Yeah.

Marc Bernstein: 14:07

You were drawn to something you were going to do no matter what, but you were, pretty up to a point, perfectly happy doing it as an employee, and then an opportunity presented itself. So all different ways to become an entrepreneur, which I find is really interesting.

Bobby Reed: 14:18

Yeah, for sure. And I say that, like, if I can do it, I'm not that smart, I just again, I'm this river guy that just wants to make, you know, make cool stuff, and you know, and, and it just so happened, I had this, you know, great opportunity and and if I again, if I can do it, you can do it too. Really it's like how I tell everyone you know, I don't think I'm anything special, I just really enjoy what I'm doing and I've been very fortunate and very lucky to have the opportunities that I've had.

Marc Bernstein: 14:45

That's great. This is a perfect opportunity to take a quick commercial break. We'll be right back on Founders Forum.

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Marc Bernstein: 15:34

We're back on Founders Forum with our guest today, Bobby Reed, really enjoying the story so far. Bobby, tell us about how you so you started the business. Everybody, all business owners, have some challenges in the beginning as they start. Did you have any of those? Did you have any stumbling blocks as you came out of the yeah, I mean, the hardest thing is always clients, right?

Bobby Reed: 15:58

I mean, that's what everyone? I don't think there's any secret there. So I told you, nbc left and moved to Connecticut. We started the company and we kept NBC as a client. But I learned a valuable lesson, because they pay on a. I mean, I don't want to probably not breaking any big news here, but they don't pay their vendors. They pay their vendors on a net 120. So what that means is that you don't get paid for four months. And so we did work for them. And then and I have again, I'm just a guy. I'm with my life savings of you know, a couple grand. There's not. I don't have any money. And now I'm shelling out stuff on credit cards and trying to borrow money.

Bobby Reed: 16:38

I'm working gigs Because you're out trying to hire cameramen and rent equipment, so I have to pay them because they're paid on net 30 and I'm not going to get my money for three more months after that. So there was some struggles there. There was just a learning curve on getting upfront. Hey look, if you're not going to pay me for 120 days, that's fine, but here's how we're going to do it structurally, so I don't have to front the money.

Marc Bernstein: 17:02

And then you mentioned getting clients as well.

Bobby Reed: 17:04

Yeah, and getting clients is tough, right. So NBC, there was a whole situation that I would not have to really talk about, but it was up and down, right. I mean, we had clients and then we would go cold. We wouldn't have a project for six months or eight months, and so what do you do?

Bobby Reed: 17:17

And fortunately, that's where I leaned on my sports experience. So I started working more live event games and it was a brilliant schedule in the sense that games happen on nights and weekends when people are not working. So I was able to wake up early and hit the pavement calling folks working on projects, trying to get the business going, and then I would go work a Phillies game at night, I'd go work flyers, and then sometimes I would, you know. Then I got asked to work bigger games, Olympics and different things, and that helps only in the sense that, yeah, my schedule was 18 hours a day or whatever it was. But when I started sitting in on meetings and saying, oh yeah, guys, either I can't do your shoot next week because I'm going to be at the Olympics, or, hey, I just got back from the Super Bowl, it held a little bit more gravitas than oh yeah, I'm a guy from Colorado.

Marc Bernstein: 18:09

It was like a blessing and a curse in a way, because, like a lot of business owners, you had to get the work and also do the work which is my business as well when I started out. Which is complicated, it makes things complex, yeah, but at the same time that helped you in a way because you could say, hey, you just got back from Wimbledon, or whatever.

Bobby Reed: 18:28

Yeah, yeah. So I'm unavailable for two weeks. I'm going to be in the UK doing Wimbledon and it's shocking and people, I guess, don't realize what I didn't realize. What I learned was, well, saying no to a client sometimes isn't a bad thing. Like hey, I'm not able to do this for you right now, but I can do it for you in two weeks, is almost just as good. As you know, it makes them want you more.

Bobby Reed: 18:50

Right, yeah, like saying oh yeah, let me do it right now. You know, it's like dating in a way. You know. If you seem desperate, you know everybody's like yeah, maybe I don't want this guy.

Marc Bernstein: 18:58

That's true, that's true. So, from these kind of challenges that you had, what did you learn? What strengths did you develop as a result of, you know, having of having to wait to get paid, having to balance all the different activities, having to learn how to acquire clients, because that's something you didn't have to do before? What were sort of the lessons from that?

Bobby Reed: 19:18

Yeah, well, I always had to acquire clients in the sense that I was a freelancer, but my client, it was different. I was applying to a company, multiple companies, or I had to work with different producers.

Marc Bernstein: 19:31

And I assume, once you have a regular customer and, like when you were at NBC Sports, it just becomes. It's not as tough of a client acquisition process, right? They?

Bobby Reed: 19:40

refer you to other people and it's a little easier. But it's a smaller network and you only have so much time in the day and you're running your own business. But you're everything. You can only make as much money as you have time in the day and as many days there are in the year. So there's no passive income really. Right, right so yeah, so I always had that salesman mentality of client service. I mean, I was a caddy growing up and that's really all Caddies are just client service.

Marc Bernstein: 20:13

They don't know anything about it. We didn't talk about that. Yeah right, I was a failed caddy. I did it for a year. I was at a tough club. I won't go into that, but I was tough about it.

Bobby Reed: 20:24

It was like the best two, three summers of my life it could be. Yeah, yeah, it was the best. Are you a golfer still today? That's another thing you would be. I used to golf all the time and now I golf three times a year, twice a year maybe if I'm lucky. Yeah, I mean now I lost my train of thought. I'm sorry.

Marc Bernstein: 20:43

Well, we were talking about the lessons learned from basically balancing all these different balls in the air.

Bobby Reed: 20:46

Yeah, yeah, I think, just having the confidence of knowing we have the ability to make money, I can pay the bills and I can have the confidence to sit in with clients in a very stressful situation and give, you know, maybe not honest feedback but an honest evaluation of where the project is and who's doing what, and work with them on their goals and what they want to see and and have a better outcome with with their video projects, marketing.

Bobby Reed: 21:17

You know, whatever it would be Because I, you know again, it's the kid from Colorado walking into Wawa or whatever you know and then this big board meeting, or you know it's a big, you know it's very stressful environment. You know I just had to sit there and I was scared. I mean, there's no doubt I was. You know I just had to sit there and you know I was scared. I mean there's no doubt I was. You know I had no idea what I was doing and and some of that's maybe imposter syndrome, some would say, but I don't, I was making it up as I was going along. So now, again, I think I'm very, a lot more confident on knowing how to solve problems with the client, how to solve problems with the company and with people, and and how do we create buy-in with everyone and then move forward efficiently and fast and in a fun way?

Marc Bernstein: 21:56

So, speaking of which, so we haven't gotten to the part of the story yet where some people know it's not you alone. Now you have a company, you have employees, so describe that. So I know you have some employees, and then you have a lot of freelancers that work for you, or contractors, I guess independent contractors, yeah, so describe that. How many do you have? And I'm interested in how you build, because I know you have a company culture. How do you build that, considering that a lot of your people are external independents?

Bobby Reed: 22:27

Sure, like you used to be Right, exactly. Yeah, I think our company is again. We're still really small. We have a production manager on staff, an editor animator on staff. We have a permalancer, as they call him out in LA editor, my partner Tim. I should have probably started with him. He's writer-director. And then we have a sound design mixer on retainer. He's also just a creative ninja. I don't know what we would do without him, honestly.

Marc Bernstein: 22:56

And then we have a colorist on retainer as well, it sounds like you have about seven people and then something like that.

Bobby Reed: 23:03

Yeah, like five, six, and then we have again probably 70 freelancers and we even have kind of a core group in Florida where you go down and shoot there that we have, that we know. And then to talk about culture, I think there's a couple of things there. One I used to do all these jobs. I used to do that. I also was a guy working for the man, as they say right, so I knew what it was like to be treated certain ways and not certain ways, and one of those things was just being paid quickly. So I could tell you this right now.

Bobby Reed: 23:36

So that lesson I learned from NBC being paid on a net 120, some of the best things I ever did was when freelancers would work for me and they would send me their invoice. We would pay them before net 30. It would be net seven, net 15. And we're still I mean now that we've gotten bigger I've had to hire, you know, bookkeepers and things and accounting firms. We're trying to work towards that and I always tell them, my accounting people, we need to pay these people before net 30, even if it's 29 days, I don't care, it's gotta be before net 30.

Bobby Reed: 24:06

And that that alone I'm not. I could have done nothing else. I could have been the biggest jerk in the world, but I was paying people on net 15. That did more for our company culture than anything else. Guys were wanting to work for us and they were going above and beyond whatever we asked them to do. Just because of that fact alone and word got out on the street that we were doing that. And I'm telling you just that alone. And there's 50 other things I could tell you, but that one thing I get.

Marc Bernstein: 24:34

I've been involved in the music business and the video business to a certain extent and in the past, and I know that that's a rarity. You know it's not, it's not part of the regular culture. So yeah that makes you stand out and, as a result, I'm sure you have people that if they say they're going to do something for you, they do it and they're right on it. And, yeah, I'm sure you have people that if they say they're going to do something for you, they do it and they're right on it.

Bobby Reed: 24:52

Yeah, I'm telling you, and we, you know, with my sports background, what we've tried to do which I think helps our clients is we work, we try to work faster.

Bobby Reed: 25:01

You know, kind of in that sports world we try to work faster than a normal film commercial crew works. And I think that you know that presents challenges to guys who have been doing it the same way, for guys and girls who have been doing it the same way for 10, 20 years, and you try to get them to go faster, do things a little differently. But if you're again you're paying them on time or quicker and you're having conversations about meaningful like what we're doing is meaningful and why those two things again you get the buy-in from the crew and they're going is meaningful and why those two things? They—again you get the buy-in from the crew and they're going above and beyond what they would normally do. They're coming with ideas. They're calling me, saying, hey, what if we did this? It's not me coming to them saying, guys, I want to try this, it's they're saying hey, if this is the goal, why don't we do it like this?

Marc Bernstein: 25:46

So they feel like they're part of the company, yeah, which they're invested in it, which is great. Yes, that's really wonderful. By the way, time always flies when we're having fun here. We have two minutes left. Okay, two minutes. I want to ask you quickly about your future vision. Your three-year vision is what you chose to talk about.

Announcer: 26:02

Okay, yeah.

Marc Bernstein: 26:03

Tell me about that. And then I have one last question, if we can get it in.

Bobby Reed: 26:05

Terrific. Yeah, my three-year vision is I'd like to get three to five more kind of bell cow clients and we work. I mean whether it's a big ad agency or whether it's just direct to brand either one would be great, and so I'm spending a lot of my time trying to tackle that. And then I'd like to get I don't want to grow crazy big maybe three to five more full-time employees, and it's really only so me and all of our employees can have time off. If we need to take time off, we have the redundancy there to keep the machine rolling. And then, yeah, I mean the revenue. I mean everyone talks about revenue goals. Sure, I could give you a number a million, 10, 100, whatever. It doesn't matter to me. What I want is just the comfortability of knowing that we're taking care of our clients and everyone's again bought in, there's meaning in the work and we can take a vacation and nobody is worried about that.

Marc Bernstein: 27:02

But growth is obviously as part of the plan. You're just not fixed on the numbers as such.

Bobby Reed: 27:08

No, yeah, the number to me is the game, it's like the score. So again, whether we double in revenue or triple, I mean that stuff comes. That's another thing I learned. That will come. It's the doing of the work, it's the product that matters the most, right?

Marc Bernstein: 27:23

right Focused on delivering quality work. Yeah, one quick thing. You have a few closing questions, but we may only have time for one. You're a video guy. What are you watching these days, because I know you don't have much time to read.

Bobby Reed: 27:35

Yeah, I'm telling you right now, the studio on Apple TV is maybe the best show I've ever seen. I've been in tears, crying. The second episode, called the One-er, will give you Of which show.

Marc Bernstein: 27:49

Of the studio. Oh, which show Of the studio. Oh the studio. I'm watching that too. It's great, especially in your business.

Bobby Reed: 27:53

It is. I mean, I feel like some of it's too inside baseball sometimes, but it's, yeah, it's a great show.

Marc Bernstein: 27:59

Thanks, that's one of my favorites as well, and we didn't talk about that before. Anyway, I think that's all the time we have today, so we appreciate you all being here on Founders Forum today and we look forward to speaking with you again next week. Thanks, Bobby, for being here.

Bobby Reed: 28:15

Hey, great to be here. Thanks for having me.