Announcer: 0:01

The following programming is sponsored by Marc J Bernstein. The views expressed do not necessarily reflect the views of this station, its management or Beasley Media Group. Entrepreneur, founder, author and financial advisor, Marc Bernstein helps high-performing business owners turn their visions into reality. Through his innovative work and the Forward Focus Forums, Marc connects entrepreneurs to resources that fuel their success. Founders Forum is a radio show and podcast where entrepreneurs share their journeys, revealing the lessons they've learned and the stories behind their success. Join Marc and his guests for a mix of inspiration, valuable insights and a little fun. Now let's dive in.

Marc Bernstein: 0:42

Good morning America. How are you? It's a sunny day in Philadelphia. It's a hot day in Philadelphia, we're into the dog days of summer and we usually have a thought of the day. We're going to skip that today because we could spend three hours with our guest today and not cover it all. So we're going to get right into it, cover it all. So we're going to get right into it, and I'm going to tell you that our guest today is Thomas J. Knox, PHD, CLU, ChFC, FCPP.

Marc Bernstein: 1:11

He's chairman and CEO of Pinpoint Health Benefits, and Tom is a serial successful entrepreneur and insurance industry professional. So, in addition to being chairman and CEO of Pinpoint, he is the founder of Homestead Smart Health Plans and the current chairman of Homestead Insurance Company. And as CEO of United Healthcare from 2004 through 2006, Mr. Knox was responsible for overseeing all of United Healthcare's operations in Pennsylvania and surrounding jurisdiction. In addition, I might add and hopefully we'll have a few minutes to get into this he worked in the Ed Rendell mayoral administration of Philadelphia and he was I'll just say he was sort of the Elon Musk of his day. He did it long before he did and did it better, I might add and he also ran for mayor, ultimately, of Pennsylvania and almost won Mayor of Philadelphia, I'm sorry and also governor of Pennsylvania and almost won. And he is fascinating guy with a lot of great, rich background.

Marc Bernstein: 2:15

And, tom, welcome, thank you, great to have you here this morning. So, and also, may I tell them, because you just started another company, may I tell them your age? Is that okay? Sure, so Tom recently turned 84. He was 83 when we started talking about this a few months ago and he's still at it and with a lot of them and vigor. So one of my mentors in that regard. We met at the Union League of Philadelphia and I'm hoping to get to know him better because that's where I want to be, that and beyond. You know, stay active and keep creating and all that. So let's start in the very beginning, tom, as you told me when we were talking over a drink one evening about your humble beginnings and that you worked from a very young age and pretty much were working and doing entrepreneurial things up until joining the Navy. So let's talk about that.

Thomas J. Knox, PHD, CLU, ChFC, FCPP: 3:06

Well, I grew up in public housing and it was the Abbotsford Project that went Abbotsford and Henry Avenues. So lived there until I was about 14. And then my mother and father moved down to Midville and Ridge next to a taproom. My father liked getting places next to a taproom. We stayed there a year and he moved to another place on Scotts Lane next to a taproom. Then I went into the Navy. I was 16 when I went into the Navy. My mother was able to take the one and make it a zero. So when I shared my bursar ticket it said I was 17. Wow, spent four years in the US Navy on an aircraft carrier called the Intrepid for two and a half years and a year and a half on the Wasp, another aircraft carrier. And if you want to know what I did on that ship at the end of my career on the ships, I was. If you never see these guys in yellow shirts waving their hands and telling planes to go this way or that way, that's what I was doing, that's what you're doing.

Marc Bernstein: 4:10

So prior to that, before going into the Navy, you were entrepreneurial from day one. I know you sold and delivered newspapers. Oh yeah, you caddied.

Thomas J. Knox, PHD, CLU, ChFC, FCPP: 4:20

I was serving papers. I was doing 500 and some papers a day. I did the Olden Park Manor. They had two buildings and I did all the papers in there in the morning and all the papers served the bulletin in the Daily News in the afternoon. I had a route that was down on Wissican Avenue near what the heck was the name of that other street. I forget right now. In any event, then the Midvale Happenstall had their gate there where all the men come out, and their office building was across the street. So I served papers in the office building and I sold them at the gate and at the end of the day it was over. You know it was like 550 papers. That's a lot.

Marc Bernstein: 5:05

And.

Thomas J. Knox, PHD, CLU, ChFC, FCPP: 5:06

I didn't have to do anything on Saturday, except I caddied up at Walnut Lane.

Marc Bernstein: 5:10

And then on Sunday I was there. That's not the easiest work in the world. I did it too, I know.

Thomas J. Knox, PHD, CLU, ChFC, FCPP: 5:15

Well, you make $2 for carrying a bag around at the time. At the time, yeah, now they went $100. Right, right, at least yeah, 100. Right, right, at least, yeah. Well, it was a poor golf course.

Marc Bernstein: 5:25

Right, I understand it was a public golf course. I know I used to play there as a kid. Walnut Lean.

Thomas J. Knox, PHD, CLU, ChFC, FCPP: 5:30

And then on Sunday I sold them in front of the church St Bridget's.

Marc Bernstein: 5:33

Church, so pretty much you were working seven days a week. I was trying to. So what? I'm going to ask you this at the beginning. I would usually ask this at the end but what do you think? Where did you get your entrepreneurial spirit from?

Thomas J. Knox, PHD, CLU, ChFC, FCPP: 5:48

When you're growing up poor, you don't want to do it again. It was necessity, right? Yeah Well, I had three younger brothers. None of them were very successful. The one that was next in line to me had a fish business and he was pretty successful, but at the end he let one of his clients, seafood Chien. He get a $300,000 tab and then they went bankrupt and that put him out of business.

Marc Bernstein: 6:16

But so what? Where were you different than your other siblings? That made you successful, do you think?

Thomas J. Knox, PHD, CLU, ChFC, FCPP: 6:22

You know it's hard to say that they just weren't the entrepreneurial type you successful, do you think? You know it's hard to say that they just weren't the entrepreneurial type?

Marc Bernstein: 6:31

You know, and it's a desire, so you were. It came with the package with you.

Thomas J. Knox, PHD, CLU, ChFC, FCPP: 6:36

Well, I was always very prolific in my reading. You know, you only go to the 10th grade and you wind up in 2010 with a PhD. Right, you had to do some reading, yeah, and I was a prolific reader. Ah, okay, I knew the tax code better than the two tax attorneys that worked for me, and both of them had their masters in tax.

Marc Bernstein: 6:57

Right, we were jumping ahead to when you got in the financial services industry, I know, but yes, are you still a prolific reader?

Thomas J. Knox, PHD, CLU, ChFC, FCPP: 7:05

I still am. I mean, I must read six hours every day, at least six hours a day, do you really that's?

Marc Bernstein: 7:11

great, that's really remarkable. So after you got out of the Navy, is that when you went into the life insurance business, well, you had to wait until you were 21 to get in the life insurance business.

Thomas J. Knox, PHD, CLU, ChFC, FCPP: 7:23

So first I was selling great books of the Western world, so I had to buy a set of them and they sold them to me for very little money, Like the encyclopedia guys.

Marc Bernstein: 7:33

Yeah, same thing.

Thomas J. Knox, PHD, CLU, ChFC, FCPP: 7:35

But there's like 50 of them, so I still have the ones I bought in 1962,.

Announcer: 7:42

I guess it was.

Thomas J. Knox, PHD, CLU, ChFC, FCPP: 7:43

I still have every one of those books Now. A couple of them I've read, but most of them great books of the Western world. I still have about 40-some to go.

Marc Bernstein: 7:53

I don't know if I told you, but I sold cookware to get myself through college high quality cookware, you know. Same idea, same sales methods, all that. There's a company called American Future Systems, the creator of that. I don't know if you've run into him. Ed Sattel is a big Philadelphia philanthropist now Sattel Institute I'll have to introduce you to. Ed. Sattel is a big Philadelphia philanthropist now. No, I never met him. Sattel Institute I'll have to introduce you to the Sattel Institute. I'll tell you that offhand.

Thomas J. Knox, PHD, CLU, ChFC, FCPP: 8:17

Well, my son is one of those. He sold cutlery yeah, very similar For about a year. We still have Cutco, cutco Cutco is what it was. Yeah, and I still have every knife and fork and butcher knife that he sold me and they're still working good and that was like 30 years ago I shouldn't say this on the radio.

Marc Bernstein: 8:37

My cookware was fine too, but my wife threw it away. She didn't like it. She was used to a certain kind of cookware, but it was good. It was guaranteed not to stain, pit, tarnish, rust, warp, chip, crack, bend or break for life. It was great stuff, but we don't still have it, unfortunately. It was called Wonderware.

Thomas J. Knox, PHD, CLU, ChFC, FCPP: 8:56

My wife wouldn't throw it away because my son sold it to us. That's right.

Marc Bernstein: 9:01

Right, right, it would be different. My mother wouldn't have thrown it away. My wife threw it away, anyway, so you got in the insurance business.

Thomas J. Knox, PHD, CLU, ChFC, FCPP: 9:10

Well, I started in the insurance business on a debit. Now most people don't know what a debit is Right, but back in the 60s a debit was when you went door to door collecting nickels, dimes and quarters for policies that had a death benefit of anywhere between $100 and $1,000. Maximum death benefit $1,000. And I was going around down in Rittner Street all the way down to Oregon. You know Rittner Street down to Oregon Avenue, from Broad Street up to 23rd Street and what company was that for Metropolitan?

Marc Bernstein: 9:44

I thought I was going to say I thought it was MetLife Metropolitan.

Thomas J. Knox, PHD, CLU, ChFC, FCPP: 9:46

Life it's called it. I was their best just starting in the business. In 19 weeks they have the first quarter is 19 weeks I sold 93 policies to the people on my debit. Wow, and the manager in the office says that was more than the other 14 guys did together. So we're taking you out of that business and putting you into strictly sales. So I've done very well selling life insurance. I mean, your numbers are phenomenal. Well, back in the 80s like in 83, 4, 5, and 6, I sold over a billion dollars worth of cash value life insurance.

Marc Bernstein: 10:23

Yeah, they weren't $1,000 death benefits anymore.

Thomas J. Knox, PHD, CLU, ChFC, FCPP: 10:25

No, now they're million dollar death benefits and people always want to know how I did that. Well, it was marketing, and I think I was always really the best marketer. There was only one guy that was a better marketer than me. His name was Alan Shine. He turned out to be his wife got rid of him because he was scrutinizing with other women. Now I've been married to the same one for 50 years, so I don't do that stuff, but he did.

Marc Bernstein: 10:54

Gotcha, but in death benefit I know you sold billions of dollars yeah.

Thomas J. Knox, PHD, CLU, ChFC, FCPP: 11:03

These policies were over a billion dollars cash value life insurance. My commissions were $9 million a year, million dollars a year. But you know, I remember that I sent my qualifications in to get admitted to what they call the top of the table. Now, in order to be at the top of the table back in the 80s you had to do 12 million of insurance cash value. If you were just a million dollar round table, you had to do 2.3 million. I was doing a billion. I called so the guy I sent my qualifications and the guy that's running the program calls me up. He says, mr Knox, you got too many zeros on this thing. Nobody can sell that much insurance. I said, oh, I did. He said no, you didn't. He says you're companies in the United States and there's 870 of them.

Marc Bernstein: 11:57

They don't and most of them don't sell a billion dollars. You're going to have to get more proof. You told me a story before about the.

Thomas J. Knox, PHD, CLU, ChFC, FCPP: 12:02

You were in the wrong line to accept an award. Oh, that one, yeah, I was with. I was a leading agent for Equitable in 77, 78, 79, 80.

Marc Bernstein: 12:09

Unbelievable, yeah. And what happened when they told you? It was a funny story when you were in the wrong line.

Thomas J. Knox, PHD, CLU, ChFC, FCPP: 12:13

Oh yeah, well, that one. So I had started with Equitable in 97, or, excuse me, 79. And I had only been with them for about four months. And in order to get this award you had to earn $100,000 in commissions. And Ecuador had 2,500 people at their annual outing that they have for four days.

Thomas J. Knox, PHD, CLU, ChFC, FCPP: 12:43

So they have you coming up in three different lines to get these awards. So I'm in the line to get this award where you get a sword and a. I forget what they called that award, but the Excalibur Award, that was what it was. So I'm in the line and I'm talking to this guy in front of me and he says who do you work for? I said Cabar, blah, blah, blah. He says how long have you been in the business? I said well, I started with Equitable four months ago. He said holy shit, you're in the wrong line.

Announcer: 13:17

Nobody could earn $100,000 in three months.

Marc Bernstein: 13:20

They couldn't believe you did those numbers. I was always very good at selling, so I want to point out you were a lot more than a salesman, though. You're an entrepreneur, because you built an organization. I know you were selling corporate insurance. You were selling life insurance to companies.

Thomas J. Knox, PHD, CLU, ChFC, FCPP: 13:36

Well, I was selling non-qualified deferred compensation plans and that's how Carb. Well, I was selling non-qualified deferred compensation plans and that's how Carbarth and I'm looking up in that building over there it has their name on top of it Carbarth and I saw I got George Carr and Bob Barth wanted me to come to work because I had a program that I developed to present non-qualified deferred compensation plans and they wanted the program Right.

Marc Bernstein: 13:59

So you taught them how to do it, because George Carr became a big producer. Oh, yeah, Well.

Thomas J. Knox, PHD, CLU, ChFC, FCPP: 14:03

George Carr. He was never a big producer, but he had a big agency, Right right. He didn't sell much himself, and neither did Bob. Bob actually went to the home office, Home office. He became the CEO. No, he never became CEO, but he came in a very high, maybe even executive vice president.

Marc Bernstein: 14:20

Oh, I thought he was president, but he died before he got there.

Thomas J. Knox, PHD, CLU, ChFC, FCPP: 14:24

Oh really, yeah, bob died. Young George is still alive. I think he must be about 90 now.

Marc Bernstein: 14:29

So, anyway. So you broke all kinds of records doing that. Yep. Then what happened? Oh, you know what. Then what happened is oh, you know what. Then what happened is.

Thomas J. Knox, PHD, CLU, ChFC, FCPP: 14:37

Well, I'm going to tell you how I sold all that insurance, because people don't understand it.

Marc Bernstein: 14:41

Well, I was going to say one. We've got to take a quick commercial break, so we're going to get right into that right after we come back. Okay, good, we'll be right back on Founders Forum.

Announcer: 14:51

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Marc Bernstein: 15:57

Visit GLASAorg. We're back on Founders Forum with our guest today, Mr Tom Knox. He had a very distinguished career in the financial services industry and has done very much since then. So, Tom, in the interest of time, I know that you did very well in the business and then you ended up selling out of the life insurance business, the business and then you ended up selling out of the life insurance business.

Thomas J. Knox, PHD, CLU, ChFC, FCPP: 16:20

Yeah, I sold my life insurance business on December 23rd of 1986 when the new tax law went into effect January 1st of 87. Right.

Marc Bernstein: 16:28

And then I know, then you got into the, so you got out just in time.

Thomas J. Knox, PHD, CLU, ChFC, FCPP: 16:32

Well, I retired, but after three months my wife kicked me out of the house. She said you're bothering me, the kids are not happy, the dog's getting mad. Right, buy yourself a job.

Marc Bernstein: 16:46

Right, so that was almost 40 years ago that you retired basically.

Thomas J. Knox, PHD, CLU, ChFC, FCPP: 16:49

And I bought a lot of different companies. I bought a bank Right, I did that one. Crusader Bank was the second largest savings bank in Philadelphia. I bought a distillery and a winery. We were selling Chateau Luzerne in my wines A million cases a year. A million, 200,000 cases a year in Pennsylvania. You didn't buy a tap room, did you? No, none of your father. No, my wife doesn't like that business. By the way, I understand I did have a couple of restaurants. They're the only business that I ever bought or got into that I made money on. Are those two restaurants? Those are hard. Which ones did you own? I owned La Terrasse. Oh, yeah, yeah, that was a big deal in the 90s and so forth, and then I sold it to Tony. What's his?

Marc Bernstein: 17:33

last name. Now I forget right Any lessons learned from being in the restaurant business.

Thomas J. Knox, PHD, CLU, ChFC, FCPP: 17:37

Don't get in it, Unless you're going to be an owner and on site. Right right, If you're on site you can make money. But what? Works out the back door and goes through the bar is tremendous.

Marc Bernstein: 17:50

I would learn that watching clients, especially construction people, that would get into the restaurant business. And a number of years ago I was in a partnership. We bought a commercial building and they said, oh, we've got to have all this equity, we're going to get another business. And I said what is it? They said a restaurant. I said I'm out. And they said what do you mean? You're out? I won't go to the whole story.

Thomas J. Knox, PHD, CLU, ChFC, FCPP: 18:13

Yeah, it was a good choice. I saw too many of turkey farms down in South and North Carolina. I had a million and a half birds on the ground at one time, figured out how to get them to market sooner, figured out how to feed them better All on computers. Wow, that was in the late 80s, early 90s. Did you sell that business? I sold that business in parts and tripled my money on that business. I was in an international harvester dealership, a commensal dealership, amazing A few others. I forget the names right now.

Marc Bernstein: 18:47

I'm going to come back to the health insurance business, but somewhere in there, what years did you get into politics? When was that?

Thomas J. Knox, PHD, CLU, ChFC, FCPP: 18:54

Well, I became deputy mayor in 92. I was Ed Rendell's largest fundraiser and his biggest contributor. Yeah, I lent him $50,000 on December 26th of 91, or 90, was it 90,? So that he'd have a war chest of a million dollars, and he paid me back eventually. It took him 15 years.

Marc Bernstein: 19:18

And then I mentioned, you became like the Elon Musk of the Rendell administration.

Thomas J. Knox, PHD, CLU, ChFC, FCPP: 19:21

Well, he, made me deputy mayor in charge of management and productivity and at the time we had a quarter of a billion dollar deficit on a $2.2 billion budget and we had that running for three years. The state was going to take us over. He wanted me to clear it up and I did that and to tell you the truth, that was a lot of fun because if I could spend an hour here telling you all the funny stories about people then what we had to get them to do. I remember when I was talking to Kumar Kirshenhand, who was the water commissioner. We were trying to get all six fleets together because they were having a lot of Nobody ever had all their vehicles were down because they didn't have access to the other warehouses.

Thomas J. Knox, PHD, CLU, ChFC, FCPP: 20:02

I went in to see him and he said we're not doing that. He said I'd rather resign than do that. I said here's a yellow pad, write it out. I'll take it to the mayor tomorrow. He said well, what do you mean? He finally signed the pay. So I never we commit and now're able. We had 25% of the police cars were out any one time. We reduced that down to 8% of the police cars because they had access to the other five other auto parts places.

Marc Bernstein: 20:29

You. I know he wanted to pay you a salary for that position and you wouldn't take it right.

Thomas J. Knox, PHD, CLU, ChFC, FCPP: 20:34

Well, you know when you're going to go in and start cutting people's salaries or their holidays, you know we didn't cut their health insurance benefits. When you're going to go in and start cutting people's salaries, their holidays we didn't cut their health insurance benefits, but we cut the cost of their health insurance benefits. It was a big deal to cut that they still don't like me for that.

Marc Bernstein: 20:52

Well, I remember that was a big deal back then that you were able to do all that cost cutting and turn a surplus for the city. Yeah, and I made them go into different types of plans.

Thomas J. Knox, PHD, CLU, ChFC, FCPP: 21:00

They had these big signs. They were walking around City Hall with my picture and another guy's picture. I forget his last name, alan's last name. But do you want these men to be picking at your gynecologist? Is what the sign said. Oh God, in my picture and Alan's was on it. But I eventually got into the health insurance business and that's where I've been for the past 25 years, basically.

Marc Bernstein: 21:24

And did you enter as CEO of UnitedHealthcare? You were in it before that, obviously.

Thomas J. Knox, PHD, CLU, ChFC, FCPP: 21:29

Well, I bought my own insurance company in 99. Okay, it called Fidelity Insurance Group Right, and I took it from a company that had $8.5 million of revenue and 10 employees to a company that had $70-some million of revenue and 280 employees. And I had built up a very big network in Pennsylvania not in Pennsylvania five-county area which UnitedHealthcare liked. I was about to sell my company to Oxford and he called me up. He said I want you to talk to these people at UnitedHealthcare. I said well, ed, I'm talking to Oxford and they're giving me a good price. He said I don't care what they're giving you, you owe me. I was the one that got you into that business with all those hospitals. I said you're right, I'll wait and talk to them. So the first time he came out he called me up and he said we can't do it.

Thomas J. Knox, PHD, CLU, ChFC, FCPP: 22:25

Rendell was talking to the CEO of United Oil. The CEO was going to the guy that's in charge of acquisitions. He was going to one of his employees and he calls me and says tell me about your company and he says we can't buy your company, it's too damn. Tell me about your company and he says we can't buy your company, it's too damn, we don't buy the companies that are that small. I said, well, that's okay, right, and we hung up and I told him. Right now, I said this is what he told me. I says wait there 10 minutes.

Thomas J. Knox, PHD, CLU, ChFC, FCPP: 22:48

10 minutes later, this guy calls me back. He says when can I come out? I said you can come out Monday. I'm selling it to Oxford on Tuesday. He came out Monday and he offered me more than twice as much than Oxford was offering me. Wow, and the reason was I had a network. The only two companies right now that have a really good network, or three, is Blue Cross, Aetna and UnitedHealthcare. And UnitedHealthcare was getting a $20 or 20% discount, blue Cross was getting 74% discount, aetna was getting 70% discount, I was getting 68% discount, so they went from 20% to 68%. Wow, and they never sold anything in Pennsylvania. But 60% of the Fortune 500 companies were clients of UnitedHealthcare, so they had 144,000 people in our area.

Thomas J. Knox, PHD, CLU, ChFC, FCPP: 23:48

Right, yeah, they saved $250 million a year for their clients Because of that acquisition yeah, unbelievable, but in any event, one of the parts of my compensation package which is, I mean, this is the first time anybody ever was paying me a half a million dollars a year, and that's in 2004.

Announcer: 24:08

Way back.

Announcer: 24:09

That's like a million and a half today.

Announcer: 24:10

Yeah, yeah.

Thomas J. Knox, PHD, CLU, ChFC, FCPP: 24:11

But the amount of money they paid me was ridiculous and they gave me a lot of stock options and when they left me go they gave me a bonus.

Marc Bernstein: 24:20

that was you know really a big thing You're talking about. When you were.

Thomas J. Knox, PHD, CLU, ChFC, FCPP: 24:25

CEO when I was CEO of. You know the guy that got killed about four months ago. Yeah, yeah, he had my job.

Marc Bernstein: 24:33

Right, I know that's the job I had. We talked about it. I said thank God there wasn't your job today.

Thomas J. Knox, PHD, CLU, ChFC, FCPP: 24:39

Well, thank God nobody was shooting back then either.

Marc Bernstein: 24:42

Right, it's crazy, right, Really interesting story. So since then, you're still in the health insurance business. So you founded we want to talk about that. So you founded, we want to talk about that. So you founded Homestead and I believe you sold a majority interest in that and now you have a pinpoint health benefits. You want to talk about that for a minute? Sure.

Thomas J. Knox, PHD, CLU, ChFC, FCPP: 25:02

Well, homestead is in the large group business, pinpoint is in the small group business. We're selling groups of five lives to 125 lives and every time we quote, we're somewhere between 10% and 15% cheaper than Blue Cross. And our partner is Penn Medicine and if you go to Penn Medicine and you have any one of our plans, they do not charge you for your deductible or your coinsurance, so you basically can go to Penn Medicine for free. Now when you tell small employers that they can get their employees no deductible, no co-insurance and their employees are always complaining about the deductibles and co-insurance that's a big deal and especially when it's the best hospital in the state and 15% cheaper. Sometimes they're 25% and 30% cheaper.

Marc Bernstein: 25:54

It's an amazing value proposition. Any small businesses listening because we have a lot of entrepreneurs listening they should check out Pinpoint for benefits, because I don't usually advertise.

Thomas J. Knox, PHD, CLU, ChFC, FCPP: 26:08

We enrolled our first people on May 1st and we have a big enrollment coming up on July 1st Interesting, so we're doing well. But people like the fact that they can get independent medicine and there's no deductible or co-insurance.

Marc Bernstein: 26:22

I have two quick questions for you, because we only have believe it or not, about a minute and a half left. One is looking out three years because, again, you're still full of lots of energy and still doing a lot of things. What's your life look like three years from now, Tom?

Thomas J. Knox, PHD, CLU, ChFC, FCPP: 26:37

Well, I hope. I'm on a cruise ship in the Mediterranean with my wife. The problem is I have two dogs and she won't leave them and the cruise ships won't take them.

Marc Bernstein: 26:46

We have that issue too. It's funny you say it. I talked my wife into going on an Alaska cruise and leaving the dog. We're going to do that. We have one more minute. So real quick, tell me real quick. You've mentioned your wife. Tell me about your wife, family, kids.

Thomas J. Knox, PHD, CLU, ChFC, FCPP: 27:01

We've been married 50 years now. We were married 50 years last month and it wasn't a hard thing. People say how do you stay married 50 years? I say our arguments never last more than a minute or two and we forget about what we were arguing about three minutes later. It's amazing.

Marc Bernstein: 27:17

And that's the truth, tom. We covered a lot of ground today. I really appreciate you being here today. We could have talked for hours more, but thanks so much for being here, mr Tom Knox, and thank you all for listening to Founders Forum and we'll see you again next week.

Announcer: 27:36

Go to Pinpoint. We hope you enjoyed your time with Founders Forum and that you found value to take with you throughout your day. Join us again next week.