Announcer: 0:00

The following programming is sponsored by Marc J. Bernstein. The views expressed do not necessarily reflect the views of this station, its management, or Beastly Media Group. Entrepreneur, founder, author, and financial advisor Marc Bernstein helps high-performing business owners turn their visions into reality. Through his innovative work and the forward-focused forum, Marc connects entrepreneurs to resources that fuel their success. Founders Forum is a radio show and podcast where entrepreneurs share their journeys, revealing the lessons they've learned and the stories behind their success. Join Marc and his guests for a mix of inspiration, valuable insights, and a little fun. Now let's dive in.

Marc Bernstein: 0:40

Good morning, America. How are you today? This is Marc Bernstein. This is Founders Forum. We have our guest here today, Tom. Got some very interesting things going on. And I would like to start out uh talking about giving back and the importance I think of entrepreneurs uh giving back, you know, because we c I consider ourselves lucky. I was listening to my podcast this morning with my friend Ray Lowe, and who can whose brand is the luckiest guy in the world, the luckiest people in the world. And uh we're really fortunate to have the opportunities we have in this country to build businesses and to live the lives the way we want to live them and that kind of thing. And I've talked a lot on the show about the Satell Institute, which is an organization that specializes in corporate social responsibility of giving back, and you know, and they're uh they're often a sponsor on the show. I'm on the board, so I actually donate those ads because I want to promote that. And I'd like to ask Tom, um, because and we're gonna get to this, but I know you are one who gives back. So tell me why you think that's important, and then talk a little bit about how you're doing that.

Tom McEvoy: 1:50

Sure. Well, I think you know, I I'm also feeling very lucky that uh I've been given what I've been given in my life, and and uh and most of the time I've my business career, I've been traveling around the world. So I haven't had a chance to really focus on my hometown that much. In the last 20 years, I have been. You know, I've gotten to the age where I'm not traveling around so much. And I looked at Chester County, which is a you know, wonderful area to live, but we found that there were 50 performing arts uh organizations that didn't have a home. And there was a pretty high percentage of people that uh a large number of people who would love to have to go to a show to see live entertainment or to actually learn about live entertainment. And and uh we did this research and decided we need to have a theater in West Chester, Pennsylvania. And so we got a group of people and there was not one there before, is that right? There was that there was a movie theater back in uh it was torn down in the eighties, which uh everyone in the town would say was one of the worst decisions that could happen. And uh and so West Chester is is booming in a lot of areas, but it's kind of dry from a uh entertainment standpoint. Interesting. And so we took uh we raised some money and it was, right? It's not now, right?

Marc Bernstein: 3:07

Because you have the theater.

Tom McEvoy: 3:08

Now it's strong. Yeah. So we we opened we we basically uh purchased the historic armory and converted it into uh into a wonderful theater and a theater school. So now you know we're we're showing about 270 shows a year. Uh you know, so it's it's you know busy all the time, and it's called the Uptown Theater in West Chester.

Marc Bernstein: 3:30

I love the story, and I haven't been there yet. We're talking about that, we may figure it out for me to get out there. But we um a couple things that occur to me about that. One is well, first of all, I'm gonna give away a little bit of your biography, which I'm gonna read in a second. But you worked for Armstrong for a long time and I didn't realize what a big presence Armstrong has in Lancaster where it's based. Yeah. And we haven't talked about this, but I've just I'm just in the middle of a series of podcasts in Lancaster that started partially because of the same guy, Ray Lowe, because he lives in Willow Valley.

Tom McEvoy: 4:01

Okay.

Marc Bernstein: 4:02

He talked about a place with culture, like a senior living place that has a lot of culture. It's amazing, and they're doing a lot of integration. He and another guest, Deb Brandt, who has Fig magazine, one of the best city magazines. You know, Fig.

Tom McEvoy: 4:14

I know Deb. Oh, you know Deb.

Marc Bernstein: 4:15

So she's but so I met her the same way I met you. Yeah. Introduced her to Ray, and they're doing a lot of things together in Lancaster. So I've had several trips out there, and the culture and everything that's going on there is incredible as well. It's another place that's really uh I I had no idea what was going on in Lancaster until recently. Aaron Powell, Jr.

Tom McEvoy: 4:33

Yeah. Well, back in 76 when I when I joined Armstrong, it that was a Lancaster was a company town. Right. And uh, you know, Armstrong has has you know have been taken over by private equity people and changed, and it's not that big a presence anymore. And a lot of other companies have really stepped up and it's a is a booming town now. It's really got a lot of interesting things going on.

Marc Bernstein: 4:53

Trevor Burrus, Jr. And I will tell you, I was at the 20th anniversary of FIG, and their book, Armstrong, has a whole section. They're still very active in the arts there um and in giving back. So even with the private equity and everything else, they're still doing that, which is pretty amazing. Oh yeah.

Tom McEvoy: 5:06

Yeah, Armstrong was a great company. I love I had 24 wonderful years there. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

Marc Bernstein: 5:10

And the former CEO lives in Willow Valley. Bill Adams. Yeah, Bill, and he's become a friend of Ray's, and it's all it all ties together. Probably the best boss I ever worked for. Wow, that's great to know. So you should go out there with me, we should visit. Yeah. I'm going to interview him one of these days. So I'll go with you on that one. We could do that together. So great entre uh introduction into Tom McEvoy, who's CEO and founder of LumberCon LLC, um, and also founder and board chair of the Uptown Theater, as we've mentioned in West Chester. And we'll maybe we might have time to get back to that a little bit. But uh, after 24 years with Armstrong World Industries, as we discussed, including seven years overseas in Hong Kong and London, Tom started a second career in the concrete industry with High Concrete, one of the leading precast concrete companies in the U.S. That introduction to concrete led him to develop LumberCon, a lightweight, this is really interesting product, lightweight, high strength, concrete deck plank. And separately, his wife and two other friends, along with him, as we mentioned, started the Uptown Theater in West Chester. So, Tom, officially welcome to Founders Forum. Thank you very much, Marc. Such a great story. Um and I'll I'll just a little bit of background because I'm concerned about time and getting it all in. But you're originally from New York and your wife was from San Francisco. Right. Which is probably where she gets a lot of the arts and culture from, I would imagine. Yeah, yeah. And um he's had he had, as we mentioned, an extensive career in business. And uh and actually what he did is he ran sales for North and South America for Armstrong uh before moving into uh uh or was that for Armstrong or was that for the Armstrong before the concrete part. Yeah, and then then started moving into his entrepreneurial ventures. So tell me um then why don't we talk about from when you left Armstrong? Well, let's talk about how Armstrong, the experience there set you up for what you're doing today, and then how that transition occurred.

Tom McEvoy: 7:13

Um Armstrong was like a like a giant family. And I I still I still go to reunions in California, in Georgia, in Pennsylvania. Oh, really? Yeah, for Armstrong.

Marc Bernstein: 7:25

It's the company sponsor those reunions? No, no.

Tom McEvoy: 7:27

It's all it's all the employees that they all this you know love Armstrong. Wow. So it's yeah, and and uh you you talk about Bill Adams, one of his and my closest friends uh just died two weeks ago at age 99. And uh his his that guy's second career was the became a wine uh opened a winery in California. Oh, I love this story. So anyway, it's a very tight-knit group, uh very supportive of each other, but we also made great building materials. And and when I was in Hong Kong, I was sort of Mr. Armstrong in Asia uh with the acoustical ceilings and flooring. And they I really learned business with Armstrong and you know, from people like Bill Adams. They they did so much to develop their you know, their people.

Marc Bernstein: 8:12

I was actually with somebody who works at Armstrong and HR there, and she told recently, last couple weeks, and she told me that I think Armstrong floors and ceilings are like separate companies now, right? Yeah.

unknown: 8:24

Right.

Tom McEvoy: 8:25

And that's why I said you know, they're not that big a presence because they have kind of separated it. Right. And the the strong business really right now is the acoustical ceiling business.

Marc Bernstein: 8:34

Aaron Ross Powell, Jr. That's what she said. And is that the original Armstrong? Is that uh they're both private equity companies now? Yes. Gotcha, gotcha. Yeah. So anyway, that set you up for success. And then what happened that led you to found uh LumberCon?

Tom McEvoy: 8:46

Well, first I I got into the concrete industry. I I spent two years uh trying to turn around a company in Chicago, and I was commuting back and forth from from Philadelphia, and it was a company that recycled plastic and extruded it into lumber profiles. And I did it for two years and it was a disaster company, and we had to do a lot of real heavy-duty turnaround stuff, and we we accomplished that. Uh, but during you know, during that process, uh the people from high concrete said that they're looking for a new president, and uh it was a chance for me not to fly to Chicago but drive one hour to Denver, Pennsylvania. So I interviewed and got that job and and uh you know started learning the concrete industry, which I've just fallen in love with. One of my RD people at the Plastic Lumber Company came over and said, you know, what we tried to do with plastic lumber, uh, that's really not a great material for decking. Concrete really is the best material. And it it took us uh about ten years of RD work to figure out how to make a very thin, lightweight concrete plank that would actually work.

Marc Bernstein: 9:59

I'm curious, why did they say, without having developed that yet, that concrete was the best material?

Tom McEvoy: 10:05

Uh the the plastic, when we used the plastic, it was great from a recycling standpoint, uh, but it it it would be talking about like trek and things like that, right? Yeah, that kind of stuff. And and and our product was all recycled milk cartons, uh high density polyethylene. And when the sun hit it, it moved. Uh you if you screwed the planks into the into the into a joist, it it would shear the the uh the screw. It was it moved so much. And also it would um uh uh you sometimes it would conduct an electric shock and it would heat up. Really when the sun hits it, it really heated up. Wow so you you step on it and you your feet would burn. Wow. Where with the concrete, it's fireproof, it's not gonna heat up, uh, it's gonna be durable. Uh should last forever in theory. We we have a a um uh a boat ramp in the Chesapeake. It's been underwater for twelve years. The product is still great.

Marc Bernstein: 11:01

But you couldn't just use concrete because number one, it's really heavy, right? Right. Right. So that that leads to what happened then?

Tom McEvoy: 11:09

Well, the the the main thing is the con the you know, so it's a it's a mixture of concrete and some uh chemicals and some fibers and also special uh pre-stressed reinforcing, metal you know, wire reinforcing. And it's it's so strong, it's unbelievable. This is also it took us ten years to develop it and then figure out how to manufacture it on a consistent basis to meet our quality standards.

Marc Bernstein: 11:36

But this was I'm just a little fuzzy on you were president of of High Concrete at that point, right?

Tom McEvoy: 11:41

Oh the high concrete is when we started doing some uh research and development. When I left High Concrete, the High Family, which if you want to do an interview with a family that gives back, the high family should be should be no unintended high on your list. What they've done is incredible. Um but anyway, they weren't interested in this in this product. So we took this product and we can we continue to develop it for a few more years and then found our own manufacturing source and you know interest in running.

Marc Bernstein: 12:11

They just wanted to stay where they were in the concrete business. They still own the concrete business? Yeah.

Tom McEvoy: 12:15

Well they're doing like like you know, uh New York Giant Stadium, uh the Mets Stadium. Yeah, yeah. That's the kind of stuff they do. They want big stuff. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

Marc Bernstein: 12:23

Well, no, you c you in a way you can respect that they want them to focus on their their best. I couldn't argue with them. Right, right, right, right.

Tom McEvoy: 12:31

Yeah.

Marc Bernstein: 12:32

Uh so you spun it off, and this was you alone, or do you do you have a group of people?

Tom McEvoy: 12:35

A group of a group of people. I had a uh former head of engineering at high concrete, is my partner, uh, and and uh and a couple of other people, but mostly this this gentleman who's the head of engineering. Interesting. So we're together. So so I I bring the kind of the business and sales focus, and he's he's the uh brings the engineering focus, which are both important. So when did you form Lum LumberCon? How long ago? About uh uh now it's about ten years ago. Okay. But we really started to start to sell the product about four years ago, and we st we were very low-key in our sales because we're basically RD for six years. Yeah, and it was still kind of out of a pilot plan. So we didn't do any marketing. It was almost word of mouth. And now that we finally have the the uh production capacity to to uh to to grow, we actually just started marketing last April. Right.

Marc Bernstein: 13:30

That's right right before we start we talked the first time, right? Yeah. And how's that going? Great. Yeah. You told me then the demand was high, right?

Tom McEvoy: 13:39

Yeah, uh nationwide. And and uh and the area actually the the greatest uh interest is California because people uh realize that with all the fires there, right? You know, the fire catches the deck and it brings the brings the fire right into the house. So people want a fireproof deck.

Marc Bernstein: 13:54

So sales are you're selling now, you're producing product and it's out in the market. Yep. And um so what so you obviously the ch I always like to hear about challenges. We just have a minute by the way until breaks. Okay. Which is amazing how quickly it goes. But you um you know one of your challenges obviously was the RD, getting getting it right, right? So then you did that. What other kind of challenges have you had about terms of getting it out in the market and and uh manufacturing and that sort of thing?

Tom McEvoy: 14:23

The the next challenge is to get architects to understand the product. Right. And so we have a small sales team calling architects, introducing the product, and and it's a slow process. The architect will then say, All right, I'll I'm gonna recommend another project, and then the project takes two years before they need the material. So there's like a long pipeline, but but you really need to have that close relationship with the with the specifier, the architect, uh, to to uh move the meter, new move the needle here.

Marc Bernstein: 14:52

Well, having gone through uh our business purchased a building and rehabbed it, yeah, and it was uh what I'm gonna say is that you know when it was post-COVID, so there were supply chain issues and things like that. Right. So it took three years almost no no um over two years from start to finish to actually get that building done. So in some cases that's okay. And from architect to being completion, right? It was well over two years. Right. So uh so I I guess that works out okay. And you mentioned architect, so I know you I know it's for residential use, the product, but it's also a lot for commercial use.

Tom McEvoy: 15:31

And actually, I thought it would be mostly uh residential. It's 75% commercial pedestrian bridges and walkways and boardwalks, you know, root commercial roof decks.

Marc Bernstein: 15:43

But given what you said about California, I imagine the residential demand is fairly high as well, right?

Tom McEvoy: 15:48

Yeah, and there we have it we have a distributor out there who can ship small quantities for residential. It would, you know, we're shipping from near Pittsburgh, is where our factory is. Right. So for a big commercial job, that's no problem. For a little backyard deck, you want to have a distributor.

Marc Bernstein: 16:04

Right, you gotta have a distributor. With that, we're gonna take a quick break. We'll be right back on Founders Forum.

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Marc Bernstein: 17:12

We're back on Founders Forum. We talked all the way through the commercial because we have so much to talk about. Uh Tom, um let's get to so we're talking about challenges. Uh what what kind of challenges are you facing right now? Where we're what you know, what's going on now? So getting the product out there obviously is one.

Tom McEvoy: 17:32

Right. I mean the product uh our challenges, you know, we are so new and we're go and we're competing with companies like Trex or even pressure treated lumber. And and uh they're products that contractors are comfortable with. So even when we get the architect to specify our product, the the contractors are gonna say, I I never worked with that before. I don't I don't want it I don't want to work with that. So we need to get to the contractor and say, he handle this just like wood. This is easy, you can do it. Right. And we gotta basically uh you know encourage them through the through the process. Once they use it, they come back and they're they're doing things with a product that we didn't know was possible. Wow. We have one guy who's now making a perimeter fence out of our product. We didn't build it for that, but it works, and it's uh it's a fireproof fence. So there's other things that can come up once you once you get the contractor involved.

Marc Bernstein: 18:25

So it's no harder to work with than wood and maybe even easier in some cases?

Tom McEvoy: 18:28

Um, pretty much the same. Instead of using a you know like a circular saw, I gotta make sure it has a a masonry uh blade.

Marc Bernstein: 18:37

Just change the blade. That's it. No big deal. Interesting. Uh so given that, I know and you're you and I are about the same age, and you're a guy who I know is looking forward, you're not looking back, but you still got a lot in front of you. What um if you if this were it's December now of 2025, if this were December 35, and you and I are having a conversation, which I hope we will be, right? What would have to happen over that 10 year period for you to say, hey, that was a really successful 10 years? And that could be personally, it could be the theater, it could be uh business, obviously.

Tom McEvoy: 19:10

Well from the bit I'll talk business first, but you know, right now you if you look at the decking market, you know, there's a company like Trex and Timber Tech that have just uh developed a great product and they've had it, they have a huge business. I'd like to have LumberCon in that conversation too, that you know, this is one of the products that if you're gonna be building a deck, you you want this product because it's gonna last forever. It's it's you know, it's fireproof, et cetera. And uh and so the you know it could be considered one of the you know the major deck players. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

Marc Bernstein: 19:39

So Trex is like ubiquitous ubique with this. Ubiquitically, we just have a hard time with that one. But and it'll be and you'd like you'd like LumerCon to be in that conversation the same way. Got it. So that's really clear. I love that.

Tom McEvoy: 19:51

Yeah, and from a from a product stand from a quality standpoint, our performance beats all the other products, but the other products have a heck of a head start. And done a great job.

Marc Bernstein: 20:02

Well, as we know, it's not always the best product that wins. It's there's marketing and there's all all the other elements money, the capital, all those kind of things. So that's that's that. Anything you would add to that from a business ten year vision?

Tom McEvoy: 20:16

No. I think you know when you when you if you got to that point, we've now built then we would have had by necessity built a team where people have gotten great employment, et cetera. Yeah, there's a lot going into that. Yeah.

Marc Bernstein: 20:28

How about from personal vision or andor the theater?

Tom McEvoy: 20:31

The the theater is is one I want to really uh focus on right now. When we opened the theater, it was like uh you know a dog chasing a car. You know, we wanted to have that car. Once we got it, we're like, how do you how do you drive it? And uh over the last six, seven years, we've learned how to run the theater. We have right now a wonderful executive director and a very strong staff, and the board is now starting to transition from a board that did all the work to a board that's really trying to support the staff and and uh and support the mission. So we're in this transition, but we're bursting at the scene. And never I never thought that would happen. So in 10 years, I'd like we we own uh property right next to the theater. In ten years, I'd like to have a a uh a new addition to the theater that we we could uh uh put on larger concerts, maybe some larger, you know, uh theatrical performances and also support our school. We had we kind of uh um inherited or uh worked with a uh teacher that was teaching 10 kids, 10, 15 kids. We brought her into the into Uptown. They now have a school of 850 kids. Wow. And we're out of space.

Marc Bernstein: 21:47

Wow and that's my in the theater space right now?

Tom McEvoy: 21:49

In the theater space, and it's my favorite part of the theater. Nice and and uh we want to be able to grow that and give them you know more room. And we have the property, we just need to build the building. Gotcha.

Marc Bernstein: 22:00

That's the 10-year vision there. Maybe you can um introduce some uh lumbercon into that uh building. You know, kill two birds with one stone. There you go, right? Make it a showpiece for lumbercon. Yeah. Put a fence in the backyard. But decking. Uh that's great. So what challenges do you see in front of you for that? Because that's that's a that's a big project.

Tom McEvoy: 22:20

Aaron Powell Oh, yeah. Uh the uh you know the the the main thing right now is we're about to go through another strategic planning process. We have some new board members that uh are bringing a lot of new ideas, and the board really needs to uh transition to uh a a board that is there to help build and support the staff. And and uh we're we're moving pretty well down that that path, but we still have you know things to do to to uh make it effective.

Marc Bernstein: 22:50

So you're an interesting guy because you've gone from a you know a corporate guy to being an employed president of a company to creating two entities that are really on good paths. Right. What what skills do you think you developed in your corporate leadership and in your leading a an entrepreneurial company that you use today in that are common to both, to your for-profit company and for the theater?

Tom McEvoy: 23:17

I I think the the main thing and is this really hit me in Asia is uh aggressive listening. Um you you can't no one can know everything. And you know, when I would go into China uh and I would I would ask people, you know, what they need to, you know what we need to do to service them better, uh, and I would hear the answer, then I would play the answer back to some of my colleagues, and they're like, No, you didn't you didn't hear that right. And so how do you sometimes it takes a couple of iterations to really get the understanding of what you need to do to be effective.

Marc Bernstein: 23:52

That that's a common thing amongst leaders that I have on the show, listening, but I love how you use the word aggressive listening. So this is to this is to our show notes because we put out notes that and we have a mailing list and all that for those who get that and little video clips. So I want to make sure that they catch this aggressive listener because it's such a great skill for leaders and such a great lesson. Uh how do you do that? How did you develop that skill? Because it's easy to say do it, but it's not easy for everyone to do.

Tom McEvoy: 24:20

Well, you mentioned uh Armstrong and Bill Adams uh early on, and you know, this is something that that he really pushed that um is almost a concept that I put a name to called intelligent risk taking. And you would you would uh talk to someone and you wouldn't just rely on your own understanding of that conversation. You'd make sure you have two or three people that you respect and you and you kind of bounce what your understanding was and have them say, no, no, you didn't, you know, I I want to critique that, you're not quite right. Or maybe a new idea comes out of it.

Marc Bernstein: 24:55

So I love that because I've never really dug into it deeply like that before. It's like what's the technique? And I love that concept of having other people check your listening, is really what you're saying before you go with it. So I've got two questions for you, and I want to I'm excited to ask you the first one first, because almost nobody picks this question to be asked. What's your favorite song?

Tom McEvoy: 25:16

All right, this is it's almost uh it's almost a trick question. It's brown eye girl. Uh Van Marisen.

Marc Bernstein: 25:22

Well, we got to talk. That's so I'm known for if I get up at a wedding, right, wherever I go as a singer, that's the song. Yeah. So that's kind of funny. Yeah. And partly I do that because my wife has brown eyes, my daughter has brown eyes, so I'm sick. Same here. How about same here? And also I love Van Marsen. Me too. It's all we got a lot to talk about. Yeah. That's great. And the last question we just have about a minute. You're doing a lot of important things. What do you what is what would you like your legacy to be? What does that look like?

Tom McEvoy: 25:52

Uh I would like the legacy that for for people to you know you know look at LummerCon or look at the Uptown Theater and go, hey, Tom McEvoy was a big part of that.

Marc Bernstein: 26:03

So in both ways, I could see how you would be um leaving an impact. The theater's kind of obvious. That should go on hopefully for generations and lots of raise lots of artists, young artists and producers and directors and all that kind of thing. How about um how do you see uh LumberCon? I can see that too, but what how do you see that as as as a from a legacy point of view? Trevor Burrus, Jr.

Tom McEvoy: 26:26

Well, I think if you get a couple of generations down, they'll they'll be forgetting about me. But the uh the people that have been have been hired in the company go would say this is a a good company and I I know the guy that started it. Kind of back to like I look at you know Bill Adams gave him you know, giving me a kind of a you know uh kickstart in the business world. He's he's uh in his I'd probably right around 90 now, and but sharp as can be. And uh and I think he knows that I know uh he did a lot to help me.

Marc Bernstein: 27:00

He's a great he's a great template too, because I'm sure you'd like to be going strong at 90 as well. Oh, yeah, that would be great. Me too. I'm looking for the same thing. We have uh we actually have a few seconds left. It always goes very quickly. So I'll ask you, I'll throw one at you that we haven't discussed. Favorite book, what do you like to read? You've got to be a reader with a lot of the things that you do.

Tom McEvoy: 27:20

Um I like mostly uh uh uh history uh and and and uh uh my my my hero is Churchill. Uh but I and and I now look at the president of Ukraine saying, You got a lot of Churchill in you.

Marc Bernstein: 27:36

He's up there, Zelensky, right? He's got to actually. Yeah, he's got uh I I can't imagine what he's going through. Yeah. So listen, I think that now we're about out of time, but thanks so much for being here today, Tom. Uh it's been great. We have a lot more we can talk about, and thank you all for your aggressive listening to the show. I hope. And uh we'll see you next week on Founders Forum. All right, thank you, Marc.

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