Setting The Stage: News & Mood

Announcer 0:02

The following programming is sponsored by Marc J. Bernstein. The views expressed do not necessarily reflect the views of this station, its management, or Beasley Media Group. Entrepreneur, founder, author, and financial advisor Marc Bernstein helps high-performing business owners turn their visions into reality. Through his innovative work and the forward-focused forum, Marc connects entrepreneurs to resources that fuel their success. Founders Forum is a radio show and podcast where entrepreneurs share their journeys, revealing the lessons they've learned and the stories behind their success. Join Marc and his guests for a mix of inspiration, valuable insights, and a little fun. Now, let's dive in.

Marc Bernstein 0:44

Good morning, America. How are you? We are here in another cloudy day in Philadelphia, cloudy, humid day, midsummer Philadelphia. And lots going on in the world. Just because who knows when you'll be listening to this, I'll give you a little bit of what's going on in the world at this moment. But the big beautiful tax bill just got passed in the Senate. Nobody knows what's going to happen in the House. There's talk of a ceasefire in uh Gaza and possibly some peace deals in the Middle East. So lots of potential good things going on. The tax bill depends on how you look at it. There's some good, there's maybe a lot of bad as well. But um anyway, a lot going on. But our guest today is Jason. I'm going to formally introduce him in a second. And I was just catching up with him. We've we always have interesting conversations. And I asked him what's going on, and he goes, you know, it's like he said, Um uh what was the word you used that you said you were?

Jason Sherman 1:44

I'm at the peak.

Delegation, Unique Ability, And Systems

Marc Bernstein 1:45

At the peak. He said, I'm at the peak, and I got so much going on. And it reminded me of a subject which I told him we'd discuss, which is the ceiling of complexity. And I've talked before on the show about Dan Sullivan, he has a program, the strategic coach, works with entrepreneurs, and he usually gets people to enter his program when they're at the ceiling of complexity. And I did that, I first entered probably about 20 years ago, and then was in and out of the program for years. And um sounds like you know, it's a it's a pro like it's jail or something. But anyway, I was in and out of the program. But um, right, exactly. Maybe it is a little like that. But anyway, um no, it was really great. It's a really great thing, and a lot of the things that I talk about on the show were influenced by my experience with strategic strategic coach. And um one of the things I heard a speech that influenced me to get in it, which was Dan Sullivan talking about when you reach the ceiling of complexity, and in my business it was at a certain level of revenues, and he said it almost always happens, and then things get complicated. You have too many clients of service, you have too much going on, and you can't you not that you can't move forward. We talked about that a little bit, but you can, but at a much slower pace because you've got to deal with all the complexity. So and it sounds like Jason, you're there now, and one of the things so just just describe that for a second, and then we'll do we're gonna do a little online therapy here for a second.

Jason Sherman 3:15

Yeah, no, no problem. I mean, I feel like the last thirty years of my life have revolved around learning, getting used to building businesses, you know, trying to succeed, figuring everything out, helping others along the way. And there came a moment, ironically, during the pandemic, where I I found myself really utilizing everything I learned, all the methodologies and strategies and tactics to excel and succeed at a at a faster rate, uh, more you know, positive data points to showcase the success. And to the point where now I'm I'm basically just kind of running things, right? And delegating to a lot of people and being able to, like you mentioned earlier, be creative in a way that energizes me. And so the the multiple different projects that I'm currently running simultaneously, like I I've done it before, but not in the manner that I'm doing it now. It's like much more sophisticated, you know, with a higher success rate in terms of partnerships happening. Um, so yeah, I just feel like this is the peak. This is like, this is what you're what any entrepreneur aspires to do in their lifetime or their career is to get to the point that I'm at right now. And I'm literally enjoying every single second of it. It's it's really kind of amazing, you know?

Marc Bernstein 4:42

Which is great. So as long as you're enjoying it, it's probably not a bad place to be. But what I know from experience of not just me, but lots of entrepreneurs that I've, you know, in the program that I keep calling it, and and just ending conversations and on the show, is you'll get to a point where it'll be too much and you won't enjoy it anymore. And what happens there is when you reach that kind of ceiling of complex when you reach the ceiling, you can't really go any further with it. And when you reach that, the first thing you do, according to Dan Sullivan, is you look at what are the biggest messes you have, because certainly there's some messes in there, and you clean those up. You do you just take some time out. You have to take time out of working at the business to work on the business, and you take time out, figure out what they are, clean up those messes, and then analyze the things you do that really energize you the most, that really and that are unique to you, and that your unique abilities that you know drive the business and start a process of delegating everything else. And in your case, you've done a lot of that.

Jason Sherman 5:45

You have programmers, you have ten years ago, I would have said that's exactly what I needed to hear ten years ago.

Marc Bernstein 5:51

Yeah, so yeah, so so but you have we talked about it, you have done a lot of it, but what you haven't gotten off your plate yet is the management of it all. And yeah, and uh my my argument, not an argument, but my my I'm getting there, I'm getting there. Is that that that can be delegated too, it can be taught and it can be delegated. And so for further a fodder for future conversations between you and I.

Jason Sherman 6:16

But and I could and I could actually tell you one thing that's been working really well for me, and it's starting to get that management off my plate, has been every single time there is a high-level project or task that I have to work on, and I know nobody can do it except for me. I simply create a screen sharing video tutorial of me talking and walking through the steps of what I do to complete that task. And then now we have like 20 of those living on a private repository, and people can pick and choose what they want to watch, then they go back to it over and over again and they stop bothering me now. So, like I'm starting to see the tasks come off my desk.

Marc Bernstein 6:54

Well, and if you had one person, let's say that was like a COO that was like running all the operations so you could continue in creation, you could have that person teach them through those videos. Sure. And that believe me, if you get the right person with the right skill sets, and we use the Colby test, you can actually test to see if if they're what what the if how it matches up with their skill sets. If you find that right person, um then you could just start handing them things and they'll know what to do after a while, right?

Jason Sherman 7:23

So so that sounds like my that sounds like my marketing team. They're they're they're getting pretty good at that.

Meet Jason Sherman And Background

Marc Bernstein 7:28

That's great. So, you know, hopefully I that's something I'd love to continue to encourage you in. Anyway, let me tell you who we're speaking with. We're speaking with Jason Sherman, who is who was the CEO. Hello, everybody. Hello. Good morning, good morning, America. Good morning, Jason. Jason Sherman is the CEO and co-founder of Veng Vengo AI, a B2B SaaS platform that transforms websites into 24-7 AI sales engines. By the way, we had started. I want to talk to you further about that too. That could be useful in our in our financial services business as well. He's a seasoned startup founder and Wharton lecturer. Jason has helped companies scale through data-driven growth, product innovation, and storytelling. So welcome officially, Jason. Thank you. I appreciate it, Marc. Pleasure being here. Not at all. So now we've eaten up a lot of the time already, but I think it was an interesting conversation. Hopefully, uh people will get value from it. Um, but let's I want to find out your story. I know that you grew up um with your parents as teachers and encouraged learning. And tell tell me from there how it happened and how it evolved into what you're doing today.

Jason Sherman 8:40

Well, yeah, I mean, they they really encouraged learning from my brother and I. They were both really more like teachers than parents, almost if you think about it, because they were just constantly teaching us and exposing us to things all around the world because they they took us everywhere, and and that kind of just kept going. I noticed in school, like it wasn't the same. I was kind of like way ahead of the kids. I skipped a grade at one point, and so once I got to college, I was able to.

Marc Bernstein 9:08

Almost like you were homeschooled through your travels and through your just constantly.

Jason Sherman 9:11

Yeah, I was homeschooled while I was going to public school. So, you know, I was able to speak more than one language, I was able to do um advanced math. And my my dad always exposed me to music and computers. So, you know, my dad's a professional pianist, he was a music teacher, so I learned the violin and the piano, and my brother as well. So it was all about music and computers, languages, history, art, science. That's what my household was.

Marc Bernstein 9:34

And it's just translated over into what a fortunate set of circumstances.

Jason Sherman 9:39

I yeah, no, I agree. I agree. I I don't take it for granted uh at all. Whereas a lot of people talk about their bad childhoods, I'm like, I just keep my mouth shut because I'm like, I know mine was great, and I can't really complain about anything. Uh the only the only thing I I wish I would have done earlier in life, which I didn't know until you know you got older, is I wish I got into filmmaking a bit earlier, um, being that my grandfather ran a movie theater for 50 years and I I watched Return of the Jedi at in the theater when I was seven. So like I had these like you know memories. But no, my parents really taught me how to thrive. And then when I went to college for computer engineering at Delaware Valley University, it was like one of the first colleges to have like an intranet. That's why I went there. This was remember '94. It internet was just the internet was just invented. So I really kind of grabbed hold. And when I graduated and I worked in IT corporate, I worked on a consulting company on the side. And in 2003, I formally created the LLC and started helping people with their technology needs, whether it was websites, custom computers, hardware, software, whatever it was. And then I went full-time as an entrepreneur in 2005, where I left IT corporate after seven years working in IT corporate. And now it's been 20 years full-time as an entrepreneur, trying every single kind of business under the sun that I could, while learning from my mistakes and applying the tactics and the strategies and the methodologies that worked, and then doing them over and over again and just getting better at what I was doing, becoming an expert in lots of different fields. And like I mentioned earlier, now I'm at the peak where I'm able to do pretty much anything without making mistakes, knock on wood.

Marc Bernstein 11:23

So, well, I I think when you stop making mistakes, you die. That's just my that's my that's my oh, please don't tell me that. Well, you know what? But mistakes, well, that's another thing because that's been a theme of the show. We talk about that. You get to a point in your life where I I actually embrace mistakes now because I I it's the best way to learn. You know, if you you learn, don't you don't you feel like you learn more from your mistakes than you do sometimes from there?

From Spinner To VengoAI

Jason Sherman 11:51

There has to be a moment in time. There has to be a mo like Albert Einstein, Nikola Tesla, you know, um uh uh Thomas Edison, you know, these people who, you know, dare I say Elon Musk, but there have to be some people that eventually they just stop making mistakes because they know how to do things after making those mistakes so many times. And and what I'm finding, Marc, is I really am no longer making mistakes. I'm just doing the right thing because I know, well, don't do those 10 things. You've already tried those over the last 30 years. They don't work. Stick with the one thing you know that works. Now, I'll tell you, my team members, they continue to make mistakes, and I'm constantly helping them learn from those mistakes by saying, here's not how this isn't how you do it, this is how you do it, here's a tutorial. You know, it's constantly teaching and so yeah, they're making mistakes and I'm helping them.

Marc Bernstein 12:48

Well, but you're a guy who always do does new things, and when you do a new thing, inevitably look, Albert Einstein. That's different. Albert Einstein, I think if you could talk to him today, he would say he made a mistake in terms of his atomic research and how it ended up in a bond. Of course. I think he has to be.

Jason Sherman 13:04

Well, he always he always regretted that.

Marc Bernstein 13:08

So mistakes come in all different flavors and varieties. Sure. But you you don't uh to me, you grow from your mistakes, and I think I think they're important for for learning experience, for sure. Exactly. So um so anyway, so now 2005 till now. So when did Vengo AI was that the original LLC LLC?

Jason Sherman 13:27

Or is no that that would have been 20 years ago. Go to consulting was yeah, yeah, yeah.

Marc Bernstein 13:32

Yeah, so how how was your consulting? Tell me about Vengo AI when that started.

How AI Agents Capture Qualified Leads

Jason Sherman 13:36

Vengo AI, we started about uh roughly three years ago and in full force about a year and a half ago, and now we're just in sales mode. So the pandemic brought a need for the pandemic, brought a need for a couple of things, and one of them was you know helping people connect. That's where Spinner came in, and then we put AI into Spinner, which was a video community app, and people liked the AI aspect of it, and they said we want that more. So we pivoted over to Vengo, and that's kind of how that started in 2022. And 23 was really RD, like figuring out how to do this, um, finding the right market. Originally, we were a consumer creator marketplace, that didn't work, but the business owners who were using it said, oh, we need this on our website to help us capture leads, and that's when we pivoted again to B2B SaaS, and that's where we are now 100%. And what we discovered is this is crazy, only two to five percent of people who come to websites become customers. So that means that means businesses are leaving 98% to 96% of people that visit their websites completely ignored. And what we do is we capture the name, email, phone number, and conversation summary of each person that interacts with your AI agent so that you don't have to. Now, this completely does away with FAQs, contact forms, repetitive questions, you know, lost prospects, lost leads, and it's working. We're getting 76% of people are talking to AI agents on our customer sites. Uh, about 77% are leaving an email address, 53% are leaving a phone number, and over 70 something percent are requesting a meeting or an appointment or a scheduled consultation. So we know it's working. It's and and we know that millions of websites need it.

Marc Bernstein 15:37

I have more questions about that, but we need to take a quick break and we'll be right back. Yeah sure.

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Marc Bernstein 16:24

Welcome back to Founders Forum with our guest today. We could probably talk all day, but it's uh Jason Sherman of VengoAI. And exactly how are you um how are you getting people what without giving away your secret sauce, what are you doing that are that's engaging people? This is the this is the dilemma I always see with websites to make them want to stay engaged uh up front. What what's the what's the difference between that and most websites?

Jason Sherman 16:53

Well, so when you go to any website, and we've been to thousands of them at this point to see what's out there, you come to a website that has information, usually an FAQ, usually a contact form, and it leaves the work on the visitor to search for the answer. That's the old way of doing things, right? It's it's not it's just not efficient. When you have an AI agent pop up automatically and says, Hey, so I noticed you're on my you know video production website. How can I help you come up with a commercial for your business? Oh, okay, well, yeah, I actually need a commercial for my pet store, and you know, we're trying to come up with a really good gimmick for this new dog leash. Perfect, let's talk about it. So we'll do this, this, this, and this, and we'll, you know, we'll be able to do two cameras. What's your budget? Oh, by the way, what's your name and email and phone number so I can really you know connect with you? Oh, hi Dave. Okay, Dave, so let's talk about this, you know, and and so this person who sounds like you talks like you know everything that you know as the business owner starts engaging with this person, and they feel like, okay, it's no longer a website, it's no longer an FAQ. I'm actually talking to someone to get through this project, and that's how you get booked as a job because 90% of the work is done. You just receive the lead with the conversation summary. It says Dave wants a pet commercial for his pet store. He wants a dog leash, this, that, and the third. His budget is $800. Call him at 215, yada, yada. And that's it. You call him, say, hey Dave, so I'm ready to shoot the commercial. What day would you want to do it? Saturday, I'm free at 2 p.m. Sounds good. Let's do it.

Marc Bernstein 18:29

Wow. Done. Wow.

Jason Sherman 18:30

You miss you miss thousands of those because they don't do anything, they don't talk to anybody.

Marc Bernstein 18:35

Well, see, I offline we'll have a conversation. Our business is a little different when people are looking for financial advice. I don't know if they're I don't know if they're willing to talk to an AI agent like that, but I'd love to find out something.

Jason Sherman 18:47

Well, we have uh funding companies that are using it, like they offer funding. So yeah.

Funding Climate And Startup Strategy

Marc Bernstein 18:52

Interesting. So great. So so tell me about um, I know you're not you've not been without challenges as an entrepreneur. Everyone has maybe um like I said, 30 years of learning. Right. So what do you what currently are you experiencing as challenges?

Jason Sherman 19:12

The biggest one that I've noticed happening and the pandemic really kind of I don't know if it's just the pandemic. I think it's just the way the market is too. The market, the climate, the financial climate, everything is if you would have, if we would have had what we have today in terms of Vengo AI, the platform, the team, the technology, the traction, the revenue, the customers, if we would have had all that packaged and done, let's say six to ten years ago, VCs would have been throwing their wallets at us like crazy.

Marc Bernstein 19:46

Yeah.

Jason Sherman 19:46

Today, they are not.

Marc Bernstein 19:48

Right.

Jason Sherman 19:49

Today, they are completely risk averse and expecting a hundred times what we have, which is unrealistic at best. And when we, you know, I meet with investors on a regular basis, they're constantly reaching out to us. I have these meetings with them, and then when we tell them our our monthly revenue, they say, Oh, yeah, sorry, we we only work with people who have you know three million dollars a year in revenue. I'm like, then why am I that this is why I'm talking to you? If you give me the funding, I can get to that number. But without that number, our ad spend is so low and our break-even is so like you know, it's we we we cannot get that number. So we're doing partnerships now and contracts with like larger entities that will get us to that number, and then the VCs, we we won't need them anymore at that point. Right.

Marc Bernstein 20:39

So that's how you're addressing that issue, but you're almost leapfrogging over it because right? I mean, it's it's we don't have a choice.

Jason Sherman 20:46

Yeah, we we don't have a choice. They that their expectations are too high. It's a big challenge for any entrepreneur. If anyone is watching or listening, they should know this. If you build something, a platform or a product, make sure to build as little as possible your MVP to sell as quickly as possible, to get revenue in the door and be able to build out features based on customer feedback before you go all out and start trying to expect VCs to give you money because they're not going to. Unless you uh graduated from Stanford or MIT or something, you know.

Marc Bernstein 21:16

But on the on the other hand, by the way you're doing it now, aren't you ultimately giving up less? Isn't that maybe ultimately a more may not be efficient in terms of because you have to get lots of different partnerships, but isn't that ultimately financially efficient way to do it? Of course.

Jason Sherman 21:31

Yeah, because we're retaining our equity, but at the same time, we're moving slower than we'd like.

Marc Bernstein 21:36

Right. I understand.

Jason Sherman 21:37

We could we could be a hundred million dollar company today if an investor would have given us three million last year. Right. Instead, we're instead we're chugging along, you know, as like a like a lifestyle business almost until we can get to the point where um we we're a heavy, a heavy hitter. And we're competing with these companies. And Marc, I'll tell you, we l we do our research. We are competing with companies that have 150 million dollars in the bank. And we're actually doing it better than they are, which is mind blowing. It's nuts.

University Partnerships And Scale

Marc Bernstein 22:04

Right. Think about that. Well, it sounds you have the intellectual capital, it sounds like, but you but you know, cash is needed as well. Yeah. Understood. Uh so let's talk let's look to the future. So this show is all about the future. And if we were talking, and it's a year from now, Jason, and things have even changed since you and I talked. I think it was like six months ago. Um what what what would have to happen over that year period for you to feel that that was a successful uh one year period in in your business, professional life, and or your personal life, if you want to add that to it.

Jason Sherman 22:42

Sure. So it's really two things right now that I'm focused on. The first is with Vengo AI, we're doing B2B SaaS, which is one-on-one customers, and you know, we're figuring out how to convert free trial users over to paid customers. So that's kind of the thing that we're doing. But the more interesting piece to me is the colleges, the universities. We have this new partnership with an agency that has an inn with let's say 100 universities. Our goal by the end of this year is to have 10 universities integrated with our technology. Those are big contracts. Those are the kinds of contracts where, again, we will not have to seek VC funding. So if you tell me a year from now that we have 50 universities using our technology, I'll say that we have succeeded. If we have 100 universities using it, we've completely surpassed our expectations. But our goal is 10 colleges by the end of 2025. And I believe we'll hit that goal because the the partner we've chosen already is integrated with them. He built, you know, they build their websites for them. So therefore, getting us in there is going to be a lot easier.

Marc Bernstein 23:52

When you say you're on the other side, I just want to understand that. So you'll be in universities as they'll be your customer, they'll be using your technology to recruit students, to for recruit perhaps talent professors, etc. Is that the idea?

Jason Sherman 24:06

Yeah. If you go to any go to any college website, just try it out when you get a chance. Go to you know whatever way, whatever college is near you.

Marc Bernstein 24:14

Yep, not something.

Jason Sherman 24:15

Go to their website and try and try to find information. Uh-huh. Good luck.

Marc Bernstein 24:20

Right, right.

Advice, Filmmaking, Music, And Wrap

Jason Sherman 24:21

Good luck. Gotcha. It is a mess. Right. There's a million pages, a million documents, a million links. It's impossible to find anything. An AI agent or an AI search on the website will put you right into where you need to go. It'll follow up with you. It'll text you. It'll call you. It'll help you along the way. Once you're a student, it'll help you with classes, campus life, security. Your parents can talk to it and see how you're doing. Whatever you need, the AI can do.

Marc Bernstein 24:48

And and colleges, I assume, have budgets for this. I mean, that's the thing.

Jason Sherman 24:53

It's a much bigger budget than the B2B person who's only paying $100 a month. Right, right. Colleges are paying, you know, tens of thousands of a year for something like this, if not more. And it's a relationship. It's a long-term relationship where we will be involved with them for a decade or longer. And this is where the money is right now. So we're we're gonna go that route. Um, we already are. We already started working on it, and we're in a very good position because unlike these bigger companies I talked about that have $100 million in the bank, they're not easily customizable. Like they're set in their ways. We're a nimble startup, we're able to customize and move and adapt to whatever the college needs. And we're not proprietary in the sense where if you go with a competitor, you're stuck with their platform. Your data is stuck on their platform. Colleges don't want that.

Marc Bernstein 25:42

And you'll be, and it sounds like you're still it sounds like you're still interested in the business marketplace, but that essentially will fund you to get to the next level in the business in the B2B market.

Jason Sherman 25:52

Exactly. We'll we'll be able to finally run you know more ads and be able to get more customers 100%.

Marc Bernstein 25:58

Very interesting. Believe it or not, we're almost out of time, but I have an I have two two quick questions for you. Um I want to make sure I get to the second one. Your first one is if you could speak to your younger self, what advice would you give you?

Jason Sherman 26:10

Oof, my younger self. I I like I mentioned earlier, I I tell my younger self to get into filmmaking a bit earlier because I waited too long for that. I was like in my 30s when I finally got into it. I would have loved to start in my teenage years or 20s. So definitely get into filmmaking.

Marc Bernstein 26:28

And um, I would have felt like filmmaking as as an as an endeavor in itself or as it's useful for your business.

Jason Sherman 26:35

Yeah, no, I'm I'm a filmmaker. I make movies. I'm in the middle of working on my fourth, uh, my fourth film, a documentary about about NASA and and astronauts. It's a very interesting movie.

Marc Bernstein 26:44

We've had I've had a couple other filmmakers on here, but I'll talk to you about offline. I've one I had lunch with yesterday. So interesting. Yeah, yeah. Um, anyway, so you were gonna um I cut you off. You were gonna finish about that.

Jason Sherman 26:56

No, I just I just waited too long for that, and I wish I would have started sooner. And and the other thing is gonna, you're gonna laugh, but I wish I I wish I had had the knowledge early on to buy Bitcoin when it was like too when it was like 2010. I waited till 2013, which some say is early, but I wish I had done it like at in 2010. So I would have this it's an obvious one.

Marc Bernstein 27:17

I've had a Bitcoin guy on the show too, a local guy who who would completely agree with you on that on that assessment. Yeah. Um, the other quick thing is uh you're a musician, you've mentioned it a little bit, and I know that. Um, what artist has influenced you most in your in your musical tastes and um adventures?

Jason Sherman 27:36

Grow growing up as a kid, I would have said Mozart because I was a violinist and he was like a genius, you know, composer. And then as I got older, uh I I just was drawn to the Beatles, and they're just their their portfolio of music is so vast. The earlier stuff is so great, and the the later stuff is genius. And and I just saw Ringo Star last week in person, so um at a concert. So I just you know, but there's so many great bands and musicians out there, but uh yeah, Mozart and the Beatles, they go hand in hand, right?

Marc Bernstein 28:09

Well, and many of them wouldn't be out there with both of those groups. Mine would be the exact opposite. As a as a young man, it was the Beatles, and then I went to music school and it was Mozart. So there you go. So mine was the opposite. But I you have great taste in music. Hey, it's been a pleasure having you here, Jason, and we could talk a lot longer. And we will, whether it's online or not. And we thank you all for listening this week on Founders Forum and look forward to talking to you again next week. Have a great day.