Welcome To Founders Forum

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Entrepreneur, founder, author and financial advisor, Marc Bernstein helps high-performing business owners turn their visions into reality. At March Forward, Marc and his partners and associates think out of the box to partner with their clients in regards to their visions for their lives, their businesses and their legacies. And through his innovative work with the Forward Focus Forums, Marc connects entrepreneurs to resources that help to fuel their success. Founders’ Forum is a radio show and podcast where entrepreneurs share their journeys, revealing the stories behind their successes, and the lessons they’ve learned. Join Marc and his guests for a mix of inspiration, valuable insights, and a bit of fun! Now, let’s dive in.

What Being An Entrepreneur Means

Marc Bernstein 0:46

Good morning, America. How are you? Good to have you here today on Founders Forum. We are in um sunny southwest Florida, much to the dismay of my partners and associates in Philadelphia today, although I think it's pretty nice there at this point as well. It's now uh February for your frame of reference. I don't know when you'll be listening to this radio show or podcast. But anyway, good to have everyone here today. Uh we usually start out with a thought of the day, and I'm gonna be really transparent and tell you guys that I haven't thought of one yet today, because it's been a very hectic morning. But I let I want to I he we have in here, we have Alec, who's our guest, and I'll introduce him in a minute. And we also have Tony Naccarato, who's CEO and chairman of Nacarrato, uh O'Donnell and Nacarrato Structural Engineers out of Philadelphia, who we did a previous show telling the story of um his father as one of the founders of the company, and uh hit the transition to he as uh CEO and chairman. So both of whom are entrepreneurs. So and we're gonna talk a lot, a little bit about EOS today, the entrepreneur entrepreneurial uh operating system. So I want to just ask you both. I'll start with you, Tony, briefly. What does it mean to you to be an entrepreneur? So it was about entrepreneurs, and I've never asked that question.

Anthony (Tony) Naccarato, PE, SE 2:12

Sure. Well, you know, it's it's uh it's being able, I think, ultimately to provide uh services, goods, you know, adv uh whatever your your your craft is or your or your your product, but it's it's really being able to serve and to take a uh really take an active role in building something that ultimately is gonna help uh you know many, many more people than than just your your immediate circle. And so taking on that risk, uh taking on that uh effort, uh the ups, the downs, you know, everything in between uh is what is what it takes, I think, to have it on the ability to take the journey, make the ride, you know, right? And and course adjust when you need to. Exactly. Uh great. Alec, how about you?

Alec Broadfoot 2:59

I think it's uh you see a need in the marketplace and you create a company to fill that need um or a business or service. Um so it's taking something from a lesser value to a higher value.

Marc Bernstein 3:11

We when we um when we tell your story, you were you you didn't work for anybody for very long before you became an entrepreneur. So there's something about that too, the preference to be an entrepreneur versus being an employee. Can you expand on that distinction there?

Alec Broadfoot 3:26

yeah. Well I I was in banking for two years, uh right out of college. And um, you know, cubicles and starting times, you know, early start times, finish times, and and uh we were we had a retail bank, and so I would I'd be stationed, I'd have some assignments in retail, and I would be working the produce uh the there would be a line out through the produce section of a grocery store where I was cashing checks on you know the first of the month on a Sunday, and I'm like, I can't do this anymore. So um it, you know, there was just a lot of bureaucracy and a a lot of um you know all sorts of red tape. And um I had an opportunity to buy a small business when I was uh 25 years old, um, which seems very young right now. Right. That was thirty years ago. Um and um, you know, I just I've always enjoyed being an entrepreneur. I've had a few businesses and um, you know, some of my friends joke that that I'm unemployable, you know, just because I haven't had a W-2 in so long.

Meet Alec Broadfoot And Vision Spark

Marc Bernstein 4:30

Right. I'll I'll just give you my quick take on it and then we'll we'll get into we'll introduce you and get into your story. But I was just just had this conversation with someone the other day, and it reminded me I had forgotten all about it, that after I got out of law school, I I did some stuff independently. I worked for a one-man firm, which was a horrible experience. So I I got I got you know I got some I got a little bit of uh things there and I I worked like part-time for some law firms and things like that. And I got serious about looking for a job, and I and I um I had a friend that had an inn at DuPont and he and uh they were hiring, I went to the Ohio State University College of Law, and they're there they were hiring from Ohio State in particular, even though they were in Delaware, and he said, I can get you an interview there. He was a lawyer there, and he said, I can get you an interview. And I said, Great. He said, But I gotta tell you one thing. He said, make sure you wear a gray flannel suit. And I said, Gray flannel. I was like, I said, Well, I I own one suit, it's a blue pinstripe suit. He says, You have to get a grain flannel suit. I said, You're joking. This is a joke, right? He goes, No, no, no. He said, if you don't have a gray flannel suit, they're not going to hire you. I said, Thanks, but no thanks. I was like, I had decided right there I was not gonna fit into the corporate world. And uh I really pretty much, I mean, I had little entrepreneurs, I never really worked for anybody. I like worked for a firm, but I was there as an independent for a little bit. I worked for another guy as an independent, uh then I practiced law as an independent, and I was in the financial services industry where I had contracts with companies, but I always was on my own. I never really I just didn't fit in that world. And in my case, my father was an entrepreneur and I watched that growing up, and I I think it was just in my blood. I just didn't have it to work for someone else. But I think there seems to be commonality, so I love to ask that question. So you just heard from Alec Broadfoot, who's founder and CEO of Vision Spark, and he's also author, which tells a lot about what he does, of hiring your right number two leader. You don't usually hear people that are in the well, do the I'll do the rest of your intro, but uh it's unusual to hear somebody that specializes in number twos, but there's a reason for that. So he leads Vision Spark, a consulting firm that has successfully completed over 200 number two leader searches for entrepreneurial companies, many of whom run on EOS, which is entrepreneurs operating system, and searches for other leadership roles with a 98% placement rate. Vision Spark is recognized in the 2023, 24, and 2025 Inc. 5000 lists. Uh this is impressive, as one of the fastest growing companies in the country. Alec is a member of Strategic Coach, which I'm also an alumnus of, a sought-after speaker, and the author of the number one Amazon bestseller, as I mentioned before, hiring your right number two leader. In his free time, he enjoys playing tennis, collaborating with fellow entrepreneurs, you even do that for fun and spending time with his family. So welcome, Alec.

Alec Broadfoot 7:41

Yeah, it's great to be here.

Early Businesses And Hard Lessons

Marc Bernstein 7:42

Thanks for joining us here in Florida from Columbus. And um, yeah, so uh well we'll I'll get there. I'll go back to that about the hiring number two leaders. But you were an entrepreneur prior to starting Vision Spark. So let's talk about how you started your journey there.

Hiring Mistakes That Changed Everything

Alec Broadfoot 7:58

Yeah, so right out of banking, and I had a uh well, while I was in banking, I had an opportunity to buy a company when I was 25. Um so I did that for a number of years. It was a self-published company, sold a lot of books, um, and uh did that for a few years and uh got into a retail store, which was a very challenging experience, lost a lot of money in that. Um also um had a mailing and printing company. So we processed mail for large companies in Columbus, like Chase, all the hospitals, uh, a lot of big companies in Columbus, and we were really good at processing mail. We would process um, you know, two, three hundred thousand pieces of mail a day. We'd pick up from the client's uh location between one and four p.m. and we'd have it processed and to the post office that evening between eight and ten p.m. And um we were really good. We were really accurate. We we would catch our clients' mistakes and I I think we'd we analyzed it was like 99.9999% accuracy on our mailing. Um and our clients loved us, um, but we had tremendous issues in hiring. And we had about seven out of ten people that that we hired that would we end up letting go. Um and so um, you know, MBA um had successful companies, but just never could hire right. You know, when the end and everyone thinks they can hire well, but when you look at the numbers, right, right, like out of the last ten people you hired, how many would you rehire knowing what you know now? Um and so we had this miserable rate of hiring. And I reached out to one of my mentors and I'm like, what am I doing wrong? And he's like, Are you using any sort of assessment or data in your hiring? I said, No. I I said we we get take an application, we ask some interview questions, and he's like, Well, you gotta you gotta start doing that. So we did. We started using an assessment tool, the one I actually use to this day. Um, it's called the talent impact profile. And that assessment tool was just eye-opening. And so instead of us firing seven out of ten people, we end up only firing three out of ten people, which was a huge marked improvement. Um at the time we needed an executive assistant, and um I we couldn't find anyone, and I I didn't know a lot about how do you attract candidates and your employer brand, and so we didn't have a lot of candidates. Um, and so finally this one woman comes in, she just nails the interview out of the ballpark. Again, I didn't know how to interview at all then. And um I had her take the assessment, the the tip assessment, and um I was shocked, her results came back horrible. I'm like, this is not the person I interviewed. And so I reached out to her references and they said, Oh, she's great, hire her. And again, I didn't know how to ask really good reference questions, which is uh very important as well. So I'm like, you know what, this assessment is wrong. Um and and the assessment basically said that she was gonna be an extremely slow learner. Um, she was gonna be um just an extreme extrovert, high energy social butterfly, have very low attention to detail, um, need tons of affirmation, um, you know, very insecure person. Um, and I'm like, that can't be true. And sure enough, in three weeks, the assessment was spot on. Everything we saw in the assessment was spot on. And so we let her go. And I said, never again will I hire anyone that goes against the results of the assessment. So that was that was about 20 years ago. Um, I did consulting. Um, I sold I sold my interest in that mailing and a lot of people.

Marc Bernstein 11:28

By the way, that one little issue I think has influenced your whole career since then.

Alec Broadfoot 11:32

Yeah, absolutely. Interesting. Yeah, I I just get jazzed about the science of hiring. You know, people ask me, is it an art or a science? And it's it's 99% science, right? It's process and data. So I sold my interest in in that mailing and printing company, did some consulting, tried to help people improve their cash flow and profitability, because that was my my experience as an MBA, and I just saw they had all sorts of leadership issues. So in um at the end of 2011, 2012, I started Vision Spark with a partner to help companies hire right using the right science, the right data, and with a focus on leadership level positions.

Marc Bernstein 12:08

What happened to the previous business? Were you still in that? The mailing company. The mailing company.

Alec Broadfoot 12:13

So I sold it to my I sold my interest to my my business partner at the time, and then he he ran that. Got it. Yeah. Okay. Gotcha.

Marc Bernstein 12:19

So and um okay, and you started Vision Spark. And there were you had some challenges there, I think, during the first year.

Alec Broadfoot 12:25

Yeah, we I mean we we were trying to do whatever we can, trying to help anybody with hiring, anybody to help hire leaders. Um we were getting leads from clients that were just not a fit because we really wanted to hire our candidates to companies that valued culture. And um, you know, I I would be talking to clients and like, hey, it's a Wednesday, I need a CFO here by Friday, I'll pay if you can. And I'm like, that's not how we work. I got super frustrated. One of my good friends, Alex Frytek, um, he just became an EOS implementer. And he's like, Alec, you ought to focus on EOS because number one, it's all about values and or core values and culture. And number two, they need this integrator role, um, which is the number two in that company. And so end of 2014, 2015, we pivoted and focused on companies running on EOS and that integrator position.

Marc Bernstein 13:19

Gotcha. And then in that, you had yeah, you brought out your partner, I believe, a few years later.

Alec Broadfoot 13:25

Yeah. So um my partner, um I had a business partner and we bought him out um about or I bought him out about six years into the partnership. So um and we always had hit the ceiling of complexity, you know, something that we learned in Strategic Coach, we can never get past a certain revenue. And um I actually joined Strategic Coach, which was really influential because um I was not in my unique ability um in the sales and marketing side. And um, once I had a revelation that we needed to hire uh someone in sales that started um scaling our company.

Sponsor Break

Marc Bernstein 14:00

Interesting. I think um I need to check the clock. Yeah, we're just about break time, so we're gonna take a one-minute break and we'll be right back on Founders Forum.

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EOS Explained Without Jargon

Marc Bernstein 15:26

We're back on Founders Forum, and I'm going to turn the microphone over to uh Tony to ask the first question here.

Anthony (Tony) Naccarato, PE, SE 15:33

Thanks, Marc. Um I'm a novice in your field, I'm an engineer. Um you you keep talking about EOS and and how that's you know so vital and important to your business. Can you just explain that and and a little bit more and and and how come you know why it it is so uh integral to the success of your business?

Alec Broadfoot 15:54

Yeah, so EOS stands for the entrepreneurs operating system. Um it was uh architected by an individual by the name of Geno Wickman about 20 years ago. And he basically took the well-known book is Traction.

Marc Bernstein 16:09

Although there's a better one that we you and I talked about.

Alec Broadfoot 16:11

Yeah, there's what the heck is EOS. There's a lot of books. Get a grip, I think, is the other one. Get a grip is a great one if you don't know EOS. It's more of a fable, it's an easier read. Um but if you think about the best of the best in terms of Jim Collins and Lencioni and Rockefeller habits, Gino really simplified that. So it's how a business runs. So you start with uh with a 10-year target, then you have a three-year picture, a one-year goal, then you have 90-day goals, which are called rocks. Um you have weekly meetings that have a certain agenda. They're all the same agenda where you know you you have headlines and you go over your metrics and you you issue solve. So for companies, for entrepreneurial companies that have no systems, um, it's a very simplified system to help you grow your company. Um and in the US, um, they talk about the value of people and culture. And so every company has core values, and you want to hire people that have those core values, um, and you want to fire people that don't. And so um that's where our our company comes in. And we can help companies running on the US hire the right people that have their core values and culture.

Marc Bernstein 17:23

And it's really become integral to your company because when back to the issue that I said I'd bring back of hiring the number two, explain that and how it relates to EOS.

The Integrator Role And ROI

Alec Broadfoot 17:33

Aaron Powell Yeah. So entrepreneurs they'll often reach a certain level of uh a certain ceiling where they cannot build their company anymore because it's it's a time issue, it's a capacity issue. And so they only know, hey, I gotta work harder to grow the company, I gotta work more. Um and I gotta hire more people. Um and entrepreneurs, um, they have their superpower, unique ability, which is what help them scale and grow the company. And so if they used to be doing that 60, 70 percent of the time when they started the company, and now that they're running the company, they're probably only doing it five or ten percent of the time, they just hit the ceiling. And so hiring a number two, someone to run the business, someone to run operations and manage people and making sure things are communicated effectively, making sure there's process and sys systems, someone to oversee financials, um, sales, marketing operations. So you hire this number two. A lot of people think it's an expense, but it's really an investment. Um, that person will pay for themselves um in no time. And you you'll get three, four, or five times what you pay them in salary. So by hiring that number two, entrepreneurs are able to spend time where they're they can really make an impact and they can focus on what they're good at, whether it's new customers, new verticals, new products, new services, um big problem solving. And so it really frees up the entrepreneur. The entrepreneur gets more um freedom, more time, more energy, more joy. Um, so we just love what we do because we see these entrepreneurs that they they have a love for their business again. Um, they have more energy than they know what to do with. So it's just it's a great way to make a difference.

Marc Bernstein 19:18

So you're helping these entrepreneurs grow their businesses, but a big big part of that role is to help search for the right integrator, the that number two person, correct?

Alec Broadfoot 19:28

Yeah, absolutely.

Marc Bernstein 19:30

And you've had a lot of success when it comes to that.

Alec Broadfoot 19:32

Yeah, we this is our sweet spot. So um, you know, you mentioned our 98% placement rate, which is probably twice the industry average when you hire a recruiter or a search firm. They're only about, you know, it's like flipping a coin if they're gonna find you the right person. And I didn't even know that was a strength of ours until I was shocked to find that it wasn't the case. And then on the other side of it, you have the retention rate. So what percentage of those candidates stay after one year? And we're at 96% there. Um so which again is it's got to be way above the average.

Marc Bernstein 20:03

Twice, twice the Mr. Average.

Alec Broadfoot 20:05

Yeah. Incredible.

Fixing Sales Marketing Inside Vision Spark

Marc Bernstein 20:06

Interesting. So now so the so this is how you help other companies. Let's talk about your own company because you're dealing with some of those same issues as you go along as well. Um, as an example, I'm gonna jump ahead, but when we talk about what you've done, you've kind of gone back to a sales marketing role, which as you've mentioned already is not your unique ability, correct?

Alec Broadfoot 20:27

Correct. Yeah.

Marc Bernstein 20:28

So how do you reconcile that since you coach P.

Alec Broadfoot 20:30

Yeah. So I had to make a change in September, and um there was just such a huge disconnect between me as the visionary and founder of the company with our sales and marketing leader. I didn't like where the marketing was heading. I didn't like the messaging, I didn't like the focus. Um, there were decisions made that just did not feel right. Um and so I made that change. I am back in that sales and marketing role. Um, it's not my unique ability, but we are making changes that and we've seen the results. So the last three months we've had some strong sales because of those changes. Um, so that's a lot of fun for me. Um I'd like to enjoy it.

Marc Bernstein 21:08

I'm enjoying it.

Alec Broadfoot 21:10

So managing people is not my unique ability. I know that. So I've actually asked for some help in, you know, with some of the follow-up and communication, which I'm not really good at. Um, but I have found out that marketing is my unique ability, or at least, you know, being part of that idea and understanding the customers, right? A lot of entrepreneurs have this huge empathy, sensitivity towards the customers and the value they bring. And that steers their marketing efforts. And so I realized that I have that. And so eventually I will hire a sales leader, but I may stay in that marketing seat for you know, for the interim or indefinitely, I should say.

Marc Bernstein 21:46

So that may be part of that may be your unique ability, as it turns out, or or part of it anyway.

Alec Broadfoot 21:51

Yeah, I I love teaching, coaching. Um, I love creating tools to help our clients. So we have those people plan workshops. So I've created some tools that That have really dramatically helped companies scale. Um and I love helping entrepreneurs overcome obstacles, whether it's people related, hiring related, or anything else. You know, if they have a challenge, I just love um, you know, coaching them through that.

Marc Bernstein 22:14

And that that is and that's part of your sales process, I would uh obviously I would think too, because the the coaching them through that helps them want to make the changes that you can help them make.

Alec Broadfoot 22:25

Right. Yeah. Right. So sometimes there's head trash, right? So they're like, I can't afford an integrator, or what am I gonna do? What's the team gonna think of me? Um, you know, how's my life gonna change? You know, sometimes their identity is in the chaos and working hard. And so, you know, they're so used to that pain. You know, I heard that's the number one addiction in this world is pain that they don't know how to get out of it. And so I like coaching them through that um and helping them. And, you know, hear from them a year later and they they're thanking me up and down because their life is better, the business is better, and they're having fun.

Marc Bernstein 22:58

Interesting observation. I can I can relate to this because for many, many years I thought my unique ability had to do with me as a financial planner. But I actually have partners now that the nitty-gritty of that they're much better at than I am. And I used to do marketing and sales because I had to to bring in business. Turns out that's what I really enjoy. And it's real, it's real so I I I get that transition. And the same thing happened with me. Right.

Anthony (Tony) Naccarato, PE, SE 23:24

I'm an engineer by trade, but I'm much more uh uh uh you know at home across from a client, you know, entertaining a client, developing a relationship, building the business.

Three Year Vision And Hiring School

Marc Bernstein 23:34

Um let's let's talk about where you are right now in relation to your future vision. So so you know this question. So Dan Sullivan would ask you, Alec, if we're sitting here three years from today and we're looking back at the last three years, what would have to happen in your life? And your say your life as an entrepreneur and your business for you to feel that was a successful three-year period in your b in your life, in the business.

Alec Broadfoot 23:58

Yes, number one, I want to get to a certain revenue number. So um that revenue amount is 10x from our from our lowest point in 2020. And so um, you know, to to grow that 10 times. So that's where I want to be in three years um to continue to make difference in the lives of our entrepreneurs. So number one, our entrepreneurs have more freedom, but these candidates that are being hired that are in their dream jobs. So we're changing lives there and to have you know more impact there. Um I would love for us to have some um and we're working on it now, but we have a uh an online school training to help with onboarding, hiring, leading, and eventually we may actually help candidates finally in their dream jobs. So I would like that that to be mostly in place where you know there is an expense to hire a firm to do the work for you. You know, it's about 200 hours of time and we do it really well, but not everyone can afford us. And so I would love to help build a product, which we we've we're about 30% through, where we could help the masses with hiring. Um so that's where I'd like to be in in three years.

Marc Bernstein 25:09

So that's so you're developing some new capabilities and 10x growth is essentially. Correct. Yeah. So what what challenges do you do you see in getting there? Because you've experienced challenges, so you're probably pretty good at identifying obstacles that could become in the way between now and then.

Alec Broadfoot 25:25

Yeah, I think number one is focus, um, time, you know, not having enough time, and then restriction on resources.

Marc Bernstein 25:33

Right. So and what strengths do you have to over do you have experience that would lend you to know that you're gonna be able to deal with those?

Alec Broadfoot 25:39

Yeah, we have a great brand, great reputation. Um we have high retention of our staff, and so um, we feel really capable of that. And uh we have a great marketing team. Um, and um our team is really good at increasing their capabilities over time. So in 2025, it wasn't our best revenue year. Um, but I actually asked the team what capabilities did you develop this year? And I was blown away with with how we grew from a capability standpoint.

Marc Bernstein 26:09

So they're on it's sort of a self-running company in that respect, it sounds like it it was before I was in that uh sales and marketing seat.

Alec Broadfoot 26:16

So yeah.

Books Legacy And Closing

Marc Bernstein 26:19

And and and now you're back to running it again. Gotcha. Gotcha. Um what uh I know you're a reader. Uh what what are you currently reading?

Alec Broadfoot 26:27

Um I'm reading this book uh by Bill O'Reilly on killing the SS, which has been just fascinating. So I love anything World War II history. And um so um uh I'm I just ordered uh The Road Less Stupid, which we were talking about as strategic coach, so I'm just waiting for that to come in. Um and also listening to the audible of The Science of Scaling by Ben Hardy, which is really amazing. And so we had a client that we did this people plan workshop for, and the whole team read this book, Science of Scaling, and it transformed the workshop where I'm like, I gotta number one, I gotta read this book, but number two, it maybe I'll make it a requirement for everyone that does the workshop with us. So at the end of the day, we gave them a plan to double their sales in one year.

Marc Bernstein 27:12

That's I haven't heard that one. I'm familiar with Danny Hardy and some of his books with Dan Sullivan, et cetera. But that's great. And um, what do you tell me you're what you're doing is pretty powerful work. What so you probably think at times about your legacy. What do you think about that?

Alec Broadfoot 27:28

Ooh, that's a good question. Um I'd like to be known as someone that really made a difference in the entrepreneurial space using science and process and strategy and effectively helping clients hire the right leaders.

Marc Bernstein 27:44

And you do you feel like you're on your way to that? It seems to me you are. Yeah. Well, I have to tell you that's about perfect timing because that's about all the time we have today. Uh, thanks so much for being here, Alec. Thank you, Tony, for being here to co-host on the second show. Thank you, Bettina, for engineering all this. And uh thank you all for listening. Have a great week, and we'll see you next week on Founders Forum.

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