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The following programming is sponsored by Marc J. Bernstein. The views expressed do not necessarily reflect the views of this station, its management, or Beastly Media Group. Entrepreneur, founder, author, and financial advisor Marc Bernstein helps high-performing business owners turn their visions into reality. Through its innovative work and the forward-focused forum, Marc connects entrepreneurs to resources that fuel their success. Founders Forum is a radio show and podcast where entrepreneurs share their journeys, revealing the lessons they've learned and the stories behind their success. Join Marc and his guests for a mix of inspiration, valuable insights, and a little fun. Now, let's dive in.

Marc Bernstein 0:41

Good morning, America. How are you today? So it's day, I don't know what day this is of the government shutdown, which they say is almost over. And we don't talk about politics, and I'm not going to say who's to blame, but I think the whole country is frustrated that our politicians haven't gotten together for this long, and people are suffering because of it. So hopefully we'll have a happy day this week when it's over. And the planes will be all flying again, and people will be eating, and and at least till the end of January, and then we'll do it all over again. Because it's but anyway. So good morning, Bill. Bill is my guest today. I'm going to introduce him formally in a second. And uh, Bill, throughout all this, um, there are certainly people, and and we talked about this on the other show that we recorded today, uh, the issue of clarity. And for business owners, clarity is really important, and but it's not always easy to keep it. And for many people in America right now, clarity is difficult when you don't know where your next meal is coming from, or you don't know if you can afford your health insurance. You know, those are reasons that can blur clarity. Um how do what occurs to you when I when I mention the word clarity and how does it impact you in your business in your life?

Bill Sprague 1:54

Sure. Um Hey Marc, thanks for having me on, first of all.

Marc Bernstein 1:57

My pleasure.

Bill Sprague 1:58

Um when I think of clarity in business specifically, um it feels to me like something I'll lose frequently. And um it it takes some time to step back from the business and uh and and focus on the vision and get back in line with the clarity. Um because especially we're in a mode now where we are acquiring agencies and um you know with different cultures coming together.

Marc Bernstein 2:30

Let's I'm gonna stop you for a second. I think I better introduce you so that people have background. Okay, yeah, let's do it. So this is my way of doing it, but sometimes we have to stop and then we'll go right back to that. So Bill Sprague is my guest, and he's president at Risk Averse Insurance, and he's the founder of this company, which is a commercial brokerage, uh insurance brokerage serving clients in construction, manufacturing, wholesale, and commercial real estate. Uh Bill has been in business since um 2015, and he and his team have turned Risk Averse into a leading brokerage in the area, that's um Philadelphia region, by providing clients a more proactive approach to protecting their business. So now let's continue. So as an insurance agency, yeah.

Bill Sprague 3:17

So um, you know, we've had some we've been fortunate to have some acquisitions and and mergers recently. Um and we're combining multiple cultures, right? And um sometimes in doing that you get you get caught up uh in in maybe the day-to-day and you lose clarity on like where you want to take the the business ultimately. Um so I I think it's something where you have to just step back periodically and um just get clear and and on your vision and your goals and and then move forward again, right? But sometimes there are setbacks to that.

From Delco To Insurance Founder

Marc Bernstein 3:54

Right. So and by the way, I think all entrepreneurs have challenges with clarity at times because of the the things you can't control. Um, you know, it comes up on the show all the time. It came up on our last one, the pandemic is an example. Like how can you have clarity when you don't know if your clients are still gonna be in business in six months or if you're still gonna be in business, you know? Right? And you have to pivot. So that requires and I'll I'll rephrase how you said it, I I call it stepping away so you can work on your business, not at it, right? And sitting back and taking another look and and revamping and pivoting and doing whatever you have to do to um to make clarity happen. So we talk a lot about on the show is entrepreneurship's not always a smooth ride, right? So so and in fact I should tell you that I met Bill originally at at an EO function entrepreneurs organization. And um you know, so we get to talk with people in that those groups all the time about um challenges, and I think uh clarity we don't call it that, but it comes up in a lot of different ways in those conversations. It does. Um so Bill, tell us about your journey. You know, how did you start, you know, education, background, where you're from, and how you got into this business, and and um and then I'll ask you some questions around that.

Bill Sprague 5:16

Sure. So uh born and raised in Delaware County, um, Derby PA uh Delco. Delco guy through Burgeon, yes, sir. Um so came up, went to Bonner, Monsignor Bonner High School, uh college. I went to Westchester and graduated from there. I don't think anyone, at least when I was getting into the business, planned to get into insurance. It was just something you kind of fell into. Uh and that was absolutely the case for me. And I have to tell you, my brother went to the University of Hartford and was an insurance major.

Marc Bernstein 5:48

Yeah. One of the rare. And it's it's actually And he's not in the business anymore.

Bill Sprague 5:52

It's it's actually uh you see it more these days. Like St. Joe's has a program, Temple has a program for risk management, uh, but most of those people will go into like the insurance world. So um I didn't see a lot of that when I was going through college, but uh maybe it was there. Uh but you know, I fell into the business, uh, started at a small brokerage in Newtown Square, and um spent from there spent a couple years on uh insurance data with an insurance data company. Uh they were doing commercial insurance data aggregation, and then I spent a couple years on the insurance carrier side. Um and it was during that time when I was working with um business or insurance brokerages uh that I realized like I can be doing this better than than how they're doing it, right? Like I think I could do this better. Um, what what made you think that? I just saw there there are a lot of shops around that are um, you know, just very reactive, don't have a plan. Um and you know, they do great business. I mean, these guys have made a career out of it, made very good livings. Uh and I was seeing a lot of that while I was punching a clock for for a company, and I'm thinking to myself, man, these guys are doing it well, uh, doing well financially, and I know I can do it better, right? Uh I'm gonna be more proactive, higher quality. Um and you know, that was really what catapulted me into the business.

Marc Bernstein 7:22

A little distinction, because you mentioned shops, and I think that's a common thing in the insurance business. I've heard the word too. Yep. But I think what you're trying to build is a firm. So I would I would call it it's a little small distinction. Yeah. Yeah. But the shops are like, you know, you have a vision of what that means in the insurance business. Absolutely.

Bill Sprague 7:41

Yep. Yeah. There's a lot of them out there. Um, you know, they write small they're tailored to um maybe just small home and auto type accounts, maybe a couple of small businesses, things like that. Aaron Powell And nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong with that at all. I mean these people make great livings doing it. So um, you know, I I respect that. Um but I just wanted to uh work with a different uh type of clientele, we'll say.

Marc Bernstein 8:06

Gotcha. So so what did you do? So you broke away and Yeah, so we broke away.

Bill Sprague 8:11

Uh I I'll say we a lot, and when I say we, I'm generally referring to me and my partner Marc. Um Marc and I've good name. Yep, yep, with a C. Oh yeah. Uh Marc and I are childhood best friends. We went to the same high school, same college, um, you know, lived together at college for a period of time, uh, and then came out and started our own business. Um we both worked at that same brokerage in Newtown Square for a bit. So it's been our wives call us an old married couple at this point. Um we've been around each other for a long time. So when I refer to we, it's it's generally Marc and I. Um so where were we going with that? The um just the direction of the business or well, how how you got going how you got the firm started? Yeah, so um, you know, we started scratch. We didn't have any business on the books. I started in 2015, Marc came on in 2016. Um but it was just basically friends and family um, you know, who would like me to do their insurance. Uh at the time, you know, you have to go out and see if an insurance carrier will even appoint you. And this was personal markets at that time. Personal. We always had a target for going the commercial route. Um, but early on, it's like you're just trying to pay the bills, keep the lights on, right? Right. Um so in in hindsight, I would have started larger businesses early on. It would have been slower growth, um, but it would have been uh I I think more sustainable growth over time. Gotcha. Yeah.

Marc Bernstein 9:46

Um you're um so what what tell me about the challenges you had. Obviously in the in the business in the beginning it's like you just need business. So you were get kind of getting whatever business you could get. As you were growing, what kind of challenges did you face?

Bill Sprague 10:03

Yeah, um I mean one of the things is, you know, I I had mentioned I think I mentioned quality earlier. Uh we wanted to provide a more quality uh product or service. Um and we got to the point early on where we were taking on um a lot of accounts that didn't generate enough revenue to to justify the the level of service that we wanted to provide. Um so after a number of years we had to transition and you know that's that's always difficult. Um, you know, transitioning to a different type of clientele, getting your whole team behind you because now you're saying no to clients that you would have said yes to before. Um but it's got to be a fit and we have to to stick to that.

Marc Bernstein 10:45

Um still in personal markets, or did you pivoted to we had pivoted?

Bill Sprague 10:49

We we we were always part commercial we we still are personal and commercial with the heavy, heavy focus on commercial, right? Uh larger businesses. So it was just more moving upstream.

Marc Bernstein 11:01

At some point you made a strategic decision to move to the larger commercial market.

Bill Sprague 11:06

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. We always wanted to write it. It was just like we just never put a focus on it. Uh we were too buried in like the the smaller stuff, um, and it was hard to get out of that. So once we were able to get our team on board, um it's been it's been great ever since. I mean we could just prior to making the shift, we were very focused on top line. Um now we're more focused on how can we grow the top line while also growing the bottom line, right? I mean it's about creating generating a profit. Um and we've done a better job at that over you know the years since we've made that transition.

Marc Bernstein 11:44

So when you hire people, you're hiring with the idea that they're gonna they're gonna generate more revenue than what you're paying them, which you know is how you do business. Yep. And every expense, there should be some profitability be built into it correctly.

Bill Sprague 12:00

Absolutely. And that doesn't always happen in year one. I mean, sometimes that takes a few years, especially in our business. Um, you know, a producer, especially if they're a startup producer, um, you don't expect to make any money with them for a few years. It's an investment. It's an investment. Yeah, but once you start making money, hopefully you continue to make it for the foreseeable future.

Marc Bernstein 12:18

And that strategy is working for you so far. It is, it is.

Bill Sprague 12:21

I mean, it creates challenges. I mean, we all I I think a lot of us in the insurance industry start the business because we're good producers, and um, you know, you'll quickly realize that once you start the business, you don't have much time to produce because you're doing all the things to run the business, right? Right. Um, so being able to step out of that and have a a sales team that steps into that uh and and provides the same quality of service that we want to offer, um, you know, it has its own challenges, but it's been good for sure.

Organic Growth Versus Acquisition Growth

Marc Bernstein 12:52

So you have you have a sales team and you have, I'm sure, administrative people as well. We do, yes. Yep. And you mentioned before, well, we actually only have about two minutes till break, so I'm gonna ask you this after the break. Um but um I have two questions going on in my mind at once. So uh we're in the middle of an acquisition, right? So when you acquire people, obviously that's strategic as well. You're acquiring another agency or or producers, or when you acquire it. It could be a mix.

Bill Sprague 13:26

Um to this point it's been um some smaller where it's just maybe like an owner operator. Uh and then we've had a couple where there was one where there was service staff included, and then one where there were multiple producers included.

Marc Bernstein 13:40

So it's been a mix. So I call when you do that, you're you're building what I would call horizontal growth by bring bringing more um people that are producers. And I I assume you also have to be f focused on vertical growth at the same time. Yeah, absolutely.

Bill Sprague 14:02

Yeah, organic and crow organic growth is important. Um, you know, we it's nice to bring on the horizontal stuff, but we always have to have a team that's that's building up from um organically.

Marc Bernstein 14:18

In a in a nutshell, how do you do that? How do you how do you work the organic part? The horizontal part people can understand and imagine. Yeah.

Bill Sprague 14:27

Um a lot of a lot of training. Um, you know, we we are very invested in the training that we do for our sales staff. Um and they, you know, they make a lot of phone calls, they do a lot of networking, um, and that's generally how they're growing their their books internally.

Marc Bernstein 14:47

Gotcha. We're gonna take a very quick break, commercial break, and we'll be right back with Bill Sprague and Founders Forum.

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Marc Bernstein 16:11

We're back on Founders Forum with our guest today, Bill Sprague. Nice to have you here again, Bill. And Bill, um so we're talking about acquisitions. So I know that uh company culture is something of concern to you. And does that present challenges when you're acquiring other producers and bringing them in andor another company in?

Bill Sprague 16:33

Yeah, absolutely. Um that's probably one of our biggest challenges with it, uh, with acquisition, because we we've created a culture over the years and uh so did those businesses. Sure. And then when you combine them, um they're they're different and sometimes conflicting. Um so it's just a matter of I think as long as coming into throughout the process of the acquisition, you have to just be very clear about what your goals are and how it's going to um how it's going to help their business grow and help them grow as individuals. And um, you know, as long as you live up to that, then um, you know, we found that the cultures do generally come together.

Marc Bernstein 17:13

Um not necessarily day one, but it does. You mentioned uh we were talking right before the break about organic growth, vertical growth, and the use of training. So obviously you want to integrate them into your training programs. Is does that work the way you you intended to?

Bill Sprague 17:29

Absolutely. Um some better than others, right? Like some people are very bought in because um you know the training programs we do um they are are top-notch, high quality. Um developed by you guys or? No, no, we use an outside uh firm. Gotcha. But um but it's very good, um, very um well known in the industry, uh very good reputation. So um the the ones that want to take advantage of it have seen a lot of success with it. Um but that's not always the case. Uh and it maybe takes some time, right? We're pretty early on in the process, so hopefully that will continue to evolve. How would you describe the um the culture that you want to build? The culture I want to build is like a can-do attitude with um with just like a winning mentality. Um, you know, taking personal accountability, right? Not blaming others. Um, when a client comes to us with a challenge, we have a a can-do attitude, like, hey, we can get this done for you. Here's how we're gonna do it. Um and then just like a a winning, pleasant to be around type of type of place.

Marc Bernstein 18:39

A pleasant winning atmosphere. I like that. Nice. Um and what do you is there any special things you do besides training to instill that culture? Do you do events? Do you do uh any socializing? Do you do any um uh you know um volunteer things or what kind of things do you do?

Bill Sprague 18:57

Yeah, we've done a lot of things over the years, um more just like social activities, maybe it's like a game together with the team. Um we've done some runs, different things like that. So I mean still a small enough team where I don't think you have to go crazy. It's just like you know, pulling people together for for a small thing.

Three-Year Goals And Ironman Training

Marc Bernstein 19:12

Gotcha. Um so let's say this is um three years from now, it's November of 2028, and we're looking back on the three years you and I are speaking. What would have to happen over that three-year period, Bill, for you to feel that that was a successful three years in your journey that could be personal, business, or otherwise?

Bill Sprague 19:34

I mean, I could go down a tangent if we're gonna go business and personal. So from I'll stick to business for now. From a business perspective, uh over the next three years, uh I'd like to double the size of the agency, um, but do it in a different way. Um, you know, we've had some some we've been fortunate to have some some very good growth over the past three years. Um I would like to double the size of the agency again with about half of that coming through organic growth. Um I'm sure there will be some additional coming from uh mergers and acquisitions. Um but I would like to we have a heavy focus on organic growth right now, so I would like half of that growth over the next three years to be through those efforts.

Marc Bernstein 20:18

That's aggressive, that's nice. Yeah. Um okay. Anything else business-wise part of that vision? Uh that's my main vision for for the business for sure. So I'm gonna ask you personal, and the reason is this is a show about founders, right? So it's the people behind the business. So what what personally would have to happen over the next three years?

Bill Sprague 20:39

All right, so um I'm big on health, wellness, um, fitness, things like that. So um one of the things that I have on a bucket list is an Iron Man. I've done a lot of races, um, but an Iron Man is one that that's a big challenge, right? Takes a lot of time. Um and I would hope to be able to do one over the next three years or so. That's wonderful. You have you started training or yeah, I mean so I'd probably be better off with like a half Iron Man right now, but uh I I gotta get to that level of Iron Man, which is almost a full-time job in itself. So would you do half first? Yeah, absolutely. I'm I'm targeting a half in 2026. Oh, nice. Yeah. That's coming up. Cool. And you're you're married? I am. Children? Married, two kids. How old are the kids now? My my daughter is 15 and my son is 12. That's right. I for you look so young, I forget that you have kids at all.

Marc Bernstein 21:37

So they so they um so yeah, how do you find the time? You had to do all that training, you had to get it. Early mornings. Early mornings before everyone else gets up.

Bill Sprague 21:46

What time do you get up? Um so so funny enough, and before this year, I would generally get up about four forty five, be in the gym at five o'clock, five AM. Um now that my kids are getting a bit older, they actually Will come to the gym with me a lot. So uh I will sleep in a bit and go to the gym afterwards with the kids.

Marc Bernstein 22:07

Do you um and do you ever train with the kids? They ever take them out and do some of that? Absolutely. You do do that. Absolutely.

Bill Sprague 22:15

It's it's important to me that that my kids are comfortable and healthy, comfortable in a gym and just healthy. And is your wife she trained as well? Does funny enough? We were all in the gym at the same time last night with different trainers and wow. You guys should be on a commercial. The whole family was there. So that's great.

Marc Bernstein 22:33

Family that trains together. Yeah. Trains together, stays together, I guess. Very nice. Very nice. Um any obstacles you see in hitting any what kind of things do you see in the way of your pip business and or your personal goals?

Learning Systems Books And Execution

Bill Sprague 22:48

Um personal goals, I'll I'll say, you know, it's mental, right? Like you have to have the right mindset. The only thing stopping me from hitting my my physical goals or personal goals are me. If your mind gets in the way. If my mind gets in the way, right? So it's that's the challenge you gotta face. Um and then business, um again, it's a mindset, right? Like I we have to have the can-do attitude as an organization, not just me, but the whole organization. Um, and we're the only ones that can get in the way of that. Uh I think we have the high quality we offer a high quality product and service, and um, you know, we just have to be able to put that out to our clients or prospective clients and um help them understand how it'll benefit them long term.

Marc Bernstein 23:31

So you seem to me um to be, in the short time I've known you, to be a pretty focused guy. Um in terms of um business, are there things that you do to help keep yourself focused? I know you're a member of EO. Um are there other things you do from a leadership point of view or development point of view to help you continue to be the leader that you are in the business? Or to or to get better even?

Bill Sprague 23:55

EO helps for sure. Uh I mean it provides a lot of the events and learning that that I um that I get. And um outside of that, it's just reading. I do a decent amount of reading, and um, you know, it reading is one thing, but applying those things that you've learned through a book um uh is a whole other thing. But primarily between EO learning events and um and and reading is where I get the majority of my my business education.

Marc Bernstein 24:22

So you led me right right to my next question. I appreciate that. Sure. What book are you currently reading?

Bill Sprague 24:27

Book I'm currently reading is No Man's Land by I think Doug Tatum. Um and it's essentially a book that talks about how a business will plateau at some point. Uh maybe it's because of lack of motivation, lack of funds, lack of knowledge, um and how you can see yourself through that event. Like all all businesses eventually will come to a point where it's like, man, how do I get out of here? Um in a good way, right? Like how do I get to that next level? And um, you know, it talks you through what those challenges look like and and how to get past them.

Marc Bernstein 25:05

So you um you mentioned this and uh this you brought up a real good point because everybody on the show talks about books they've read, and but we never really talk about how they apply it. So what do you do when you're done reading No Man's Land? What will you do to help apply that to your business?

Bill Sprague 25:21

That's the key, right? Um sometimes I'm better than others. Um I I take notes when I'm reading a book and I'll try to at the end just kind of sift through the notes and say, like, all right, what's the one thing I can take? A lot of times out of a book, I might get one thing out of it, right? So it's just taking that one thing and and seeing if it's the right time to just apply it in the business.

Marc Bernstein 25:40

Aaron Powell And you'll build that into your written plan, I guess, at some point.

Bill Sprague 25:43

Yeah, I mean, a lot of times it's more for me, like things that I have to do. So, yeah, are there times when like like traction, for example, that affected the entire organization because we just changed the operating system of the organization. Um But it started with you. It started with me, right? But um but more times it's about like things that that I need to do um to to hopefully move the the firm to the next the next level.

Marc Bernstein 26:07

What are your favorite books that you've read over the years?

Bill Sprague 26:12

Uh I'll give you the ones that I think have had the most impact. Um Traction was one of them from a business perspective. Um the one from a personal perspective would have been Miracle Morning. And that was ri what really got me into the mindset of like, hey, get up early, get your mind right, get your body right, uh, and then the rest of the day will be will be easier.

Advice To A Younger Founder

Marc Bernstein 26:35

Nice. Um are you um well, I really just have one other question for you. If you could speak to your younger self, Bill, what advice would you give you? Because you seem like a pretty well-developed, focused guy. So what what would you add to that mix if you were advising yourself?

Bill Sprague 26:53

I would say start a business earlier. Um I waited too long, I went the I went the uh the safe route, we'll call it, but it doesn't get easier. You you don't get an opportunity where there's like less risk involved with starting a business. Uh it just gets riskier and riskier. So um I would say right out of college or high school, if college is not for you, right? Just if you're entrepreneurial, start a business. Get things moving. Um you'll learn on the fly. You're gonna learn from your mistakes, but uh ultimately I think you'll be in a better place when you get to my age.

Marc Bernstein 27:27

Well, that's great advice, and that's actually all we have time for. Time flies when we're having fun on the show. Thanks for having me, Marc. Thanks, Bill Sprague, for being here. Thank you all for listening, and we'll talk to you next week on Founders Forum.

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