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Announcer 0:00

WWDB 860 AM Philadelphia and WPEM HD2 Burlington, Philadelphia. The following programming is sponsored by Mark J. Bernstein. The views expressed do not necessarily reflect the views of this station, its management, or Beastly Media Group. Entrepreneur, founder, author and financial advisor, Marc Bernstein helps high-performing business owners turn their visions into reality. At March Forward, Marc and his partners and associates think out of the box to partner with their clients in regards to their visions for their lives, their businesses and their legacies. And through his innovative work with the Forward Focus Forums, Marc connects entrepreneurs to resources that help to fuel their success. Founders’ Forum is a radio show and podcast where entrepreneurs share their journeys, revealing the stories behind their successes, and the lessons they’ve learned. Join Marc and his guests for a mix of inspiration, valuable insights, and a bit of fun! Now, let’s dive in...

Do Words Matter More Than Intent

Announcer 1:02

in.

Marc Bernstein 1:02

Good morning, America. How are you? This is an unusual for this spring beautiful day in Philadelphia. It's always sunny here, of course, so it's a sunny day in Philadelphia. According to TV legend, it's always sunny. Anyway, um I have in the studio with me today two guests, Susan and Devon, who are mother and daughter in that order. And I'll formally introduce them in a minute, but I have a topic of the day for the two of you, which should be fun. And I was listening to um, you know, uh satellite radio on the way in this morning uh to a political uh politic pop potus, which is a political channel. And I was uh host, I don't know if it's a host or guest, I heard Quis Chris Cuomo. I didn't know he had a show on there, if he does. But anyway, I'd like to listen to politics sometimes. Don't like to talk about them, especially on the show, but like to listen about it. And he was going on about this thing about um that that it's not it's not words that are bad, it's the intent behind them. So depending on how you use them, all words can be good. And I was thinking about whether I agree with that statement or not, and I won't inflict my opinion on the two of you, but you know, is it is it is it is it the words that you use or is it the context and the intent behind them that matter? And since you two are in a marketing business or have been and are, um I'll start with you, Susan. What do you think about that?

Susan McCrossin 2:37

Well, I think words are tools. And the more tools you have in your arsenal, the more you can convey your intent. But I also think there's rules, especially on the radio, right, right. About things you shouldn't shouldn't say. So one of the things I said to Devon on our way in here was, boy, I hope I can control my potty mouth.

Marc Bernstein 2:57

Okay. All right. Any any words you care to share with us? No, I'm just kidding.

Susan McCrossin 3:02

I really don't think you want to hear them. No, it's my intent is good though.

Marc Bernstein 3:05

Your intent there you go. So the words are important from that perspective.

Susan McCrossin 3:09

I think a hundred percent, especially in marketing. And you can make something in marketing white when it's black.

Devon McCrossin 3:17

So, you know.

Marc Bernstein 3:18

Devon, what do you think?

Devon McCrossin 3:20

I think that the words are what draw you in, but the intent is what lingers with you. So if you want to have a lasting message, it's how you make people feel. So how they've made you feel when you used a certain word, you know, I think that's what sticks in people's head. And a lot of marketing and sales is so emotional these days, you know, and and just your brand is so emotional. So I I think personally, like I think the intent is so much more important than what you say.

Marc Bernstein 3:46

The uh yeah, it's interesting you say that. But people do use words to grab attention. Yes. Um, I recently in the last six months or so, I had I mentioned I was listening on the way in to um a song by a songwriter I know in Nashville, who I'm friends with her mother, and she's out there trying to make a name, and she had these very gentle folk songs, and she had this really loud rock and roll song, which I have nothing against, but the name of it was B-I-T-C-H something. And I was like, whoo, this is out of character her for her. And I realized she was trying to grab the attention because she didn't change as a person, but she was using the word to to grab the attention. But people are going to look at her differently now than they would have when she was singing different kinds of songs. So, so I I happen to think I've been doing a lot of work on language, like personal development work, and in a course that I've gone to, I've mentioned it once or twice on the show before, called Create Powerful, and that words are everything. And that, and not just the words you use and how you use them are both very important. So I kind of disagreed with this statement from the beginning. So that was I wanted to wait to hear what you said first, but that's kind of how I feel about it. So anyway, so I think the words are very important. So having said that, you're in the words business to a large extent, or you Susan has been, and Devon is actively in it.

Meet Boomtown Internet Group Leaders

Marc Bernstein 5:08

So Susan McCrossin is our guest, and her husband Jim founded Boomtown Internet Group in 2004 to help small businesses navigate the internet and grow online. BIG, or big, I guess, rapidly evolved into an easy and affordable way for businesses to outsource website design, programming, and digital marketing as technologies improved. Susan finds satisfaction in helping businesses grow, something I can relate to, and instilled that thrill in her daughter Devon, who now runs BIG. Does she say BIG or big?

Devon McCrossin 5:41

I say big. Our tagline is grow big with Boom Town.

Marc Bernstein 5:44

Oh, yeah, there you go. Makes a lot of sense. You are a marketer. Susan has since retired to a small Pennsylvania farm where she continues to pursue entrepreneurship through a woodworking business with her husband. Maybe we'll get to talk about that for a minute. Devon McCrossin is a partner and owner of now Big. She has an MBA and undergraduate degree from Penn State. And that was something because I know under some difficult circumstances, I think you did your undergraduate and your business degree at Penn State within a five-year period, I think, right?

Devon McCrossin 6:18

Yeah, I got into this great program at Penn State where you get to learn like a technical skill, something in science, and then they layer on the business. After a three-year undergrad, you do a two-year master's in business because they realize like these technical people in the workforce don't have the business acumen, but they really need that in order to like move up in the roles. Right. So you get like the foundation and then move on to uh being a leader. So I did my undergrad in math and my MBA.

Marc Bernstein 6:48

And I so I'll finish with that. And she also has certifications in Google Ads, Google Analytics, and Lean Six Sigma, which I know a bit about that. I've done a lot of work with manufacturers, so I know a bit about that. And she's lived and worked across the U.S. and internationally, and currently is based in Phoenixville, Pennsylvania. So welcome, ladies, both of you. Nice to have you here this morning.

Devon McCrossin 7:09

Thank you.

Marc Bernstein 7:11

So, Susan, let's start with your story, how you got into the business. And um actually I'm going to start with Devon. I'm just going to ask, because there is entrepreneurship in your family going back before your mother. So you expressed more of that to me than she did. So why don't we start with that and then we'll go to her her

Entrepreneurship Starts Before A Business

Marc Bernstein 7:31

story.

Devon McCrossin 7:31

Yeah, I think my family's very entrepreneurial from when I I grew up, you know, um my grandfather used to only give us gifts of if we could. Oh, that's true. We had a business plan in place and we knew what we were gonna do with the money that he was gonna give us. So um it was very contingent on, you know, what are you gonna do with this? How are you gonna add value? How are you gonna learn a skill? Um, which I think was very entrepreneurial growing up. And like that was, you know, her father. So she lived in that household. Um he was a professor of economics. I think he instilled a lot of like money management to us. And then my grandfather on the other side was a CEO and uh lots of entrepreneurial.

Marc Bernstein 8:14

So isn't this interesting? Because Susan was kind of rolling her eyes. She's what? What are you talking about? And here you lived it, right? But your perspective, so you brought her into the business, but you didn't realize there's an underpinning to that that kind of helped her want to do something like that. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

Susan McCrossin 8:29

I think it goes back to your first question about words and their intent. Right. I figure when I think of entrepreneur, I figure it's somebody who owns a business. But she's saying it in the terms of its entrepreneurial spirit in our family.

Marc Bernstein 8:43

True. Right. Maybe they weren't entrepreneurs themselves, but her grant your father apparently really encouraged entrepreneurship in that right, right? And you can be an entrepreneur. I think without be owning a business, I see people that start nonprofits as an example, or I see people there are a lot of people within companies that and we have clients, we always say we work with entrepreneurial people, but there are people that work for companies that are very entrepreneurial that are building their little fiefdoms within these companies and things like that. So you can find entrepreneurship in a lot of places. And a lot of people a lot of people today have side hustles as entrepreneurs too. So that's that's you never know where you're gonna find it. So anyway, so let's talk now, Susan, about how the business began.

Building A Digital Agency In 2001

Marc Bernstein 9:27

Um, do you want to tell us your your version of that story?

Susan McCrossin 9:30

Yeah, and then I'll hear Devon's. Um because she lived it too. I think it was like uh my husband was working for a company where he had about 250 people under him, and I was transitioning from being I had I always had my own company, but it wasn't always Boomtown. And I was doing I had taught myself web development and I was doing database programming and web development on the side. And this I you were always an entrepreneur. Always we can talk about that another time. But um I I was raising my two kids, I think Devon was six or something like that. Yeah. And um Jim lost his job, and I knew that because he was because he was um you know, had so much responsibility that he was always gonna start losing his job. So I wanted to have something more solid for us, and I saw an ad in the paper for Pentap, which is Pennsylvania technical, um, technical uh partnership, and they have a grant from the state of Pennsylvania through Penn State to go and help small businesses grow in technology. So I took the job and I went all over the state of Pennsylvania um putting in intranets, internets, uh making web development, making web websites, um, and doing some marketing because of course nobody knew how to find them on the internet back then. Um so once I did that for about two years, I had built this network up of all of the you know, state and federal agencies in Pennsylvania, and I knew a lot of people, and I kept saying to Jim, my husband, we should start a business with internet marketing, which wasn't a thing.

Marc Bernstein 11:32

You know, there was no that was the pioneer days, right?

Susan McCrossin 11:35

In fact, we didn't know what to call it. Everyone started calling it SEO, search engine optimization. We didn't know I kept calling it internet marketing.

Marc Bernstein 11:44

Right, right, right, right, right.

Devon McCrossin 11:46

I think a good status people don't really realize Google started in 2001. Yeah. Right. It's wheels like it's been a race for the right.

Susan McCrossin 11:53

I was working at at Pentap when Google started. And I remember we all invested in Google. And it was I think it was forty dollars or something.

Marc Bernstein 12:02

Well, it did well with your forty dollars, I would think. Yeah. Right.

Susan McCrossin 12:05

So and Facebook and like all of them, you know.

Marc Bernstein 12:08

I remember the day Yahoo came out. Exactly. Huge buzz, and everybody was investing in Yahoo!

Susan McCrossin 12:14

So that was the start. And I could I so I worked at Pentap for a little while, and I was allowed only to take clients that weren't in Pennsylvania, or I would violate my Pentape thing. So I did like Delaware and New Jersey clients, and we got them so fast and so many of them that I was working like I don't even know how many hours because I was trying to do both jobs. So eventually I quit.

Marc Bernstein 12:37

This is how many years ago was this, just for perspective?

Susan McCrossin 12:40

Oh, over 20. Okay.

Marc Bernstein 12:43

But somewhere between 2000 and 2005, probably.

Susan McCrossin 12:45

Yeah, I mean it was when Google started, so yeah, 2001. Oh, okay.

Marc Bernstein 12:48

Got it, got it. Oh, same year. Got it. Yeah. Okay.

Susan McCrossin 12:51

So um that's how we started. And immediately within like the first week of starting the business, I met this entrepreneur named Gary Puddles who owned a bunch of call centers, and he offered to buy Gary and I are friends.

Marc Bernstein 13:03

We we used to play in the same band together. Yes.

Susan McCrossin 13:05

Yeah, that's why I asked you. Okay.

Marc Bernstein 13:07

So you're now the guy that got him back into music.

Susan McCrossin 13:09

So Gary was always hustling, right? And he would come up to me and he's like, I'll buy your business right now. And I was like, but we we have like seven clients. And he's like, It's not the clients.

Marc Bernstein 13:19

Right.

Susan McCrossin 13:20

It's your it's your model.

Marc Bernstein 13:21

And then But you didn't sell it, obviously.

Susan McCrossin 13:23

No, but I always like someone offered you $300,000 at the time, you're like, I don't know, maybe I could come up with another idea.

Marc Bernstein 13:30

If you guess it's funny.

Susan McCrossin 13:32

Yeah. So that was kind of funny. We already we knew it was going to succeed almost right away because you know, people like Gary.

Marc Bernstein 13:38

Right, right, right. So so he was in he what was his involvement with the business with you?

Susan McCrossin 13:44

Oh, well, so he was a call center, and there was a lot of bad press about call centers back then. So he wanted some marketing help. And also he was his model is to acquire a bunch of call centers and put them under his model. Right. You know. And uh so we helped him, he was one of our first clients, and we helped him do that.

Marc Bernstein 14:05

That's great.

Susan McCrossin 14:06

And then he had us come out.

Marc Bernstein 14:08

That's a great that's a great success story of yours, then too.

Susan McCrossin 14:11

Yeah, well, he was instrumental in helping us get a lot of call centers because he he let me do a presentation on this new thing, internet marketing, right, to all the call centers. And then we had like 60 call center clients in three days. So that was a like a little overwhelming, and that was a scaling thing I had to figure out. But yeah.

Marc Bernstein 14:32

Interesting. Very interesting. Um, so we're almost at break time. There's let me ask you this this really quick. What kind of every every every entrepreneur's story is just it's a smooth ride, right? You start it in the business right. I I wish I could show your faces. We we we forgot to turn the camera on, so we're only gonna get the second half of the show.

Susan McCrossin 14:53

See, none of us are talking about it. I know. How about that?

Marc Bernstein 14:55

That always happens anyway. But I wish I could show your face because obviously there are challenges. What were your major challenges starting out in the business?

Susan McCrossin 15:03

Oh, well, even though I'm supposed to have this entrepreneurial background, no one in my family um owned a business. Right. So I'm my husband was in business and he was a man in management of business for a long time. So he was a big help. And one of our challenges was splitting the company so that I did operations and he did sales and marketing or sales and administration, really. I did the marketing.

Marc Bernstein 15:27

Gotcha.

Susan McCrossin 15:28

Um so that was a big challenge in the beginning, was just figuring out who was gonna do what and then getting procedures around and hiring. Like we had to staff up so fast. Um, because it it was you know, it was a really hot thing, everybody wanted it. And of course, as you know, when you staff up really fast, you make some mistakes. So, you know, we had to do a lot of um organizational things right off the get-go.

Marc Bernstein 15:57

So we were talking about earlier as we were preparing for the show, the concept of unique ability. So, right, so you figured out pretty quickly what yours and Jim's unique abilities were, but then realized you had to hire people that had other abilities that neither of you probably had in order to move from the city.

Susan McCrossin 16:12

Because of the scale. Yeah.

Marc Bernstein 16:13

Yeah, which is really cool. Well, that's very good. So with that, we're gonna take a quick break and we'll hear a little bit more about Boomtown, and we'll be right back on Founders Forum.

Break And Boomtown Ad Spot

Announcer 16:22

Looking to grow your business online? Boomtown Internet Group helps local and national brands stand out with custom website design, digital marketing, and high-performing advertising campaigns. We don’t do cookie-cutter. Every strategy is tailored to your goals, whether that’s more leads, more sales, or better visibility in AI and social media. From SEO and Google ads to fully custom websites that convert, Boomtown is your partner for real, measurable results. If you’re ready to turn clicks into customers, visit BoomtownIG.com today or call 888-454-3330 to get started. Grow BIG with Boomtown. 

Marc Bernstein 17:01

We're

Bringing Devin Into The Company

Marc Bernstein 17:02

back on Founders Forum. It's a crazy morning. So uh we had forgotten to turn the video camera on. This is the problem with the small time operation we have here. But anyway, we're recording the second half of the show. So we're back. So your business started to grow. Um at some point, obviously. Let's talk about how Devon came into the business. I think this is a good jumping off point. So at some point you'd grown a lot and probably needed help. You started thinking about doing other things. So tell us about that.

Susan McCrossin 17:32

Well, Devon first came into the business when she was still in high school because I I used a lot of interns um for writing at the time. A long time ago, you had to write a lot to be found online. And so I would hire anybody, everybody, to write. And Devon was a really excellent writer of the five-paragraph essay.

Marc Bernstein 17:56

By the way, your other daughter worked in the business, or works in the business too.

Susan McCrossin 18:00

I hired her first. And then Devon and all through every summer, and a lot of their friends, and I was at Pentap, so I knew all these Penn State students. So I had English majors from Penn State, programmers from Penn State, they were all interns. So that's how Devon started in with the business. And I would say that Jim and I talked business 24-7.

Devon McCrossin 18:20

I felt like I was at the business from the day it started.

Susan McCrossin 18:23

We used her input on a lot of things because there were a lot of things where the business may be something Jim and I didn't really understand as well as maybe a younger person would. Wow. So there were a lot of businesses where we consulted with our kids a lot. Especially when social media came out. Yeah.

Devon McCrossin 18:39

Like how are we going to break into the MySpace?

Marc Bernstein 18:42

It was a young person's game, right? Yeah. So it's pretty interesting that you first of all that you were that open to that, and also that that you had built in-house literally an expert, right?

Susan McCrossin 18:52

Trevor Burrus, Jr. And then and and then when Devon first, you know, decided that she wanted to become part of Boontown, that was never my intent, was to have somebody, you know, like I'm building this business for you. That was not my intent. And she was getting really beat up. You can tell this part.

Devon McCrossin 19:14

Yeah, so I wanted to, you know, work at a big corporation and, you know, have a bigger impact. You know, I felt like you know, you never want to do what your parents do, right? Um, and then once I was there, I realized like talking to the executives at these big corporations that I did not want their lives and what would I be working towards, and looking at what my parents had built and how happy they were and how successful they were, and how much impact they really had on small business, and just it you we do so much every single day that has a real tangible impact on what we do than like I could have ever had in a corporation that uh you know, pretty quickly I realized that that wasn't where I should be. Um and after only like two years, uh they had some challenges with staffing um and they needed help, so I joined with the intention of like learning the business for a year and then taking over.

Marc Bernstein 20:10

And this was on the heels of you traveling all around and doing all kinds of jobs, right?

Devon McCrossin 20:15

Yeah, yeah. I worked um uh in uh manufacturing. So we would we were localizing supply chains, so moving supply chains from overseas back to the US or Mexico or things like that.

Marc Bernstein 20:27

So what so what kind of challenges did you face now? Because now you're starting to take over the business.

Devon McCrossin 20:31

Yeah.

Marc Bernstein 20:32

Um and I'm sure there's some things you must have run into.

Devon McCrossin 20:35

Yeah, so I I didn't really have a background as much as I knew SEO from working with you know in the business for a while, I didn't have a marketing background. I didn't do marketing in school, so really getting up to speed on that and gaining the trust of the clients was the number one thing. So we always knew once I joined the transition would happen. Um so I got put into a position to build relationships with our, you know, partners, uh referral partners, our biggest clients right off the bat. Um so that way when the transition occurred, it didn't feel like you know one person was leaving and one person was coming in. It was very seamless. You know, that was a big hurdle to in one year learn the expertise and talk like I knew what I was doing. Right, right. But that she had built for 15 to 20 years her whole life, you know.

Susan McCrossin 21:25

And I kept telling her the technology changes so much. So one of her first clients was a big giant social media comp uh contract for am I allowed to say the name of the company? Well, whatever. It was a a company that does um like spandex outfits and it was a clothing company. Yeah, yeah. Ballerina and dancing stuff. And I was feeling a little terrified because it was all social media. And at the time I mean, I had a Facebook I had you know, I had LinkedIn and Twitter and stuff. But I didn't know anything about social media, and I'm like, look, this is what I do. I have to figure this out. You could you do it.

Devon McCrossin 22:09

Yeah.

Susan McCrossin 22:09

And that sort of dumped her right into it.

Devon McCrossin 22:11

So feeling confident and valued right off the bat that I was impacting the business is definitely something that helped with the transition.

Marc Bernstein 22:17

So I have another question too, because you so full disclosure to our audience, so we're clients of yours, my company, and I found you right recommended to you by somebody. So I didn't meet you the way I usually meet people on the show. When I first met you, I thought you were you you come off very young. Even on radio, your voice sounds young, right? I understand why, because your mother looks very young for age too. But but well then she has a more mature voice. Oh me too. It's husky voice. It's not age, this is allergies. That's what I say. So, anyways, but the so you um but you you know so I I wonder if you came off young to some of these big clients and things like that sometimes too.

Devon McCrossin 22:58

I think definitely when you first start, but then when you're able to speak with such confidence, people forget it right away. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

Marc Bernstein 23:03

That's exactly what happened to me. Yeah. You had me won over in about a minute, you know. So Yeah.

Devon McCrossin 23:07

I I think I'm aware of it, you know. Being already advanced in my career, working with international people, working in supply chains very male dominated. Like I always had that, you know, come in and be confident in what you're doing, and people will forget that. Right. You're a woman or you're young, or they treat you the same then.

Marc Bernstein 23:23

Right. Interesting. So you had those challenges. How did you what kind of strengths did you develop as a result of dealing with those challenges?

Letting Go And Hiring Great Talent

Devon McCrossin 23:32

Um yeah, I think I I'm not sure uh of those challenges. I think one thing once the transition occurred and I was fully running the business with my other business partners, um, realizing that I couldn't control everything and I had to outsource. So the first thing that we did, similar to, you know, my mom's story, is invest in talent was definitely one of the things. And I feel like I have a pretty strong strength at finding the right talent. Um I think that I was able to identify those like intangible aspects that would make someone a good fit to work at Boomtown. Um and I think I did a really good job of hiring a team, and I credit a lot of my success to being like let go of control, allow somebody else to be, you know, the expert in that.

Marc Bernstein 24:19

Um you're you have a n how many employees do you have total?

Devon McCrossin 24:23

Well, we have about twenty five um around the world.

Marc Bernstein 24:27

Right. And employees and you also have contractors?

Devon McCrossin 24:31

Yeah, yeah, incl including those.

Marc Bernstein 24:32

Including, yeah, got it. All over the world, which is the model these days, I think. Yes. So um let me

The Vision For Boomtown Group

Marc Bernstein 24:39

ask you this. We don't have that much more time, but if we this were three years from today, so it's May of 2029, and we're looking back on the last three years, Devon, what would have to happen in terms of your vision for the company and or your life, if you want to mention that, um, for you to feel that was a successful three-year period in your life?

Devon McCrossin 24:57

I think when they named and branded Boomtown, it was always Boomtown Internet Group. So I'm really excited to bring group into what we're doing. So I want to, you know, get out of the day-to-day of operations here and be able to pursue like new business ventures, maybe acquisition, but specifically software development. I love to get into product rather than service to So there will be other there will be other companies under the group. Yes, to kind of build out what um the ultimate vision originally, you know, even if I'm stemming off of what they my parents originally wanted it for. Um I think it'd just be a great model to to roll in a product to the service side.

Marc Bernstein 25:38

So what is that ultimate vision? What's the mission behind that?

Devon McCrossin 25:41

Uh to you know uh I don't know. I like to be the boomtown group that we can be, build up all these sub-businesses that work off of each other, feed each other, you know, so that way we don't have to go out and you know, we're kind of in a yeah.

Marc Bernstein 25:55

But so you're providing what to the world at that point? I mean you're you're there there's more you want to provide through its product and service in terms of getting helping your clients do what?

Devon McCrossin 26:08

Grow. Grow, right, okay.

Marc Bernstein 26:10

So so more support services and products to help your clients grow bigger and better.

Devon McCrossin 26:15

Yes.

Marc Bernstein 26:16

Okay. Yeah. Maybe I should be do your marketing for you.

Devon McCrossin 26:18

I know, right.

Marc Bernstein 26:19

No, I'm kidding. So uh very good. So I have some questions for you.

What We’re Reading And Final Takeaways

Marc Bernstein 26:24

You're both readers, I understand, right? Yeah. Um what uh Susan, what are you reading these days? I think you have some.

Susan McCrossin 26:30

Right now I'm reading um Dr. Benjamin Hardy's book on um uh the science of scaling uh a company. And it's really interesting because it's not just for businesses, it's for anybody who wants to achieve a big dream. And it's a total mindset or mind prepared paradigm of changing being comfortable to being extraordinary and how you do that. And he starts out with JFK's um space initiative and how he achieved that, which was not on anyone's radar.

Marc Bernstein 27:13

Right. Um first of all, thank you for that because I'm right in the process of scaling our company. Yeah, and I've read Benjamin Hardy, the with along with Dan Sullivan, ten times as easier than 10X is easier than 2X, and he's brilliant. So, but I didn't know about this book, so I'm gonna pick that up. So thank you. How about you, Devon? What do you read?

Devon McCrossin 27:32

Uh so we're doing We've got a half a minute, by the way. Oh, we're doing a classics book club. So we're trying to educate ourselves and spark discussion. So we're reading, you know, uh literature that was very forward thinking um uh about you know technology um and even in the 1960s, what people thought today would be like.

Marc Bernstein 27:50

So your whole book group is built around that theme? Yeah. Oh, that's pretty cool. I've never heard that thematic of a book club. That's pretty cool. We're interested in. Well, it's time for us to wrap up. So I thank you both for being here. It's been a great conversation. It's a great uh intergenerational story of a of a company that is booming, looking towards the future. I thank you all for listening today to Founders Forum, and we'll see you again next week.

Announcer 28:15

Founders’ Forum was brought to you in part, by March Forward, LLC. We partner with entrepreneurs like you to assist in accomplishing your future vision. Your life. Your business. Your legacy. Comprehensive wealth planning that starts with you -- not a product. We hope you enjoyed your time with Founders’ Forum and that you found something of value to take with you throughout your day. Join us again next week for another episode of Founders’ Forum on WWDB 860 AM Philadelphia, or on your favorite podcast streaming service. Securities offered through DFPG Investments, LLC (“DFPG”) Investment Advisory Services offered through Diversify Advisory Services, LLC (“Diversify”). DAS and DFPG are affiliated entities. March is unaffiliated with DAS and DFPG. Member FINRA/SIPC The information provided in this podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and should not be interpreted as investment advice. The views expressed are those of the host and guests and do not necessarily reflect the views of Diversify or DFPG.