Welcome And Show Framing

Announcer 0:03

Entrepreneur, founder, author and financial advisor, Marc Bernstein helps high-performing business owners turn their visions into reality. At March Forward, Marc and his partners and associates think out of the box to partner with their clients in regards to their visions for their lives, their businesses and their legacies. And through his innovative work with the Forward Focus Forums, Marc connects entrepreneurs to resources that help to fuel their success. Founders’ Forum is a radio show and podcast where entrepreneurs share their journeys, revealing the stories behind their successes, and the lessons they’ve learned. Join Marc and his guests for a mix of inspiration, valuable insights, and a bit of fun! Now, let’s dive in...

Marc Bernstein 0:48

Good morning, America. How are you? It's a beautiful day here in Philadelphia. I have in the studio with me Peter, who I'll introduce you to formally in a minute. And uh how are you doing today?

Peter Barber 1:00

I'm doing great. Are you great? Beautiful day, yeah.

Marc Bernstein 1:02

Great to have you here. Hey, we are gonna start with our topic of the day today. Um there's an expression that I really like is um to spend some time thinking about your thinking. And I don't think he made it up, but a guy named Dan Sullivan, who I've mentioned on the show before, who started a program called the Strategic Coach for Entrepreneurs, great coaching program. Um he talks about that. Like there's a section of every session you would do with with his organization called Thinking About Your Thinking. So he I have a quote from him that we're gonna start out with as a thought for the day, because I've been thinking about this type of thinking, which is the problem is never the problem. The problem is that you don't know how to think about the problem. So we're there's a lot of thought about thinking here today. So, Peter, so I'll just tell you from my perspective, I

Reframing Problems At Work

Marc Bernstein 1:55

like to do that. I like to like it when you're in the middle of something, step out of it and say, Hey, am I going about this the right way? You know, is this does this really make sense the way I'm handling this? So I'm gonna read it again and then ask you your impressions of it. The problem is never the problem. The problem is you don't know how to think about the problem. How does that occur to you?

Peter Barber 2:15

Yeah, that's I I think he's spot on with that. That's an issue that lots of us struggle with. You're you have a problem that seems really obvious right in front of you. We were just talking about this this morning in a staff meeting that we had. Uh we had an employee causing us some challenges, and you know, it's a name that keeps coming up, keeps coming up. And I'm like, what the heck's going on here? Why are we having the same same problem with this person? And you know, and it's usually the person that's managing them is the one that's expressing this problem and step back and said, Well, you know, what's is this a structural issue on our end? You know, what's the real problem behind the problem? And do we have to manage him differently? Do we have to think about this problem differently? Is it is it somebody's attitude that's wrong, or is it our perception of the attitude, or is it our perception of how we're interacting with him that's causing the problems? And we're not seeing the real opportunities presenting to us because we're so caught up in how we want things done. And so it's just reframing what those problems are what a problem is, reframing um ourselves. We talk a lot about this is you know, what you know, it's a different terminology, but the same. What's the question behind the question? You know, there's some issue and you know, somebody's coming in late for work, not giving 100% of their effort. But have we really articulated exactly what that means, what it means to give 100% of your effort, how do we do these things most effectively?

Marc Bernstein 3:35

So often magic happens on the show. And to me, this is a little example of that, because I picked that out of the sky and I couldn't have picked a better person to talk about that that quote with. So thank you for that. That's a sure thing. That great answer.

Lancaster Roots And A College Side Hustle

Marc Bernstein 3:49

So today I have with me Peter Barber, and Peter is founder and CEO of Two Dudes Painting Company, and out of Lancaster, Pennsylvania, and I say that for a reason. This is part of a series that we're doing on Lancaster, uh Lancaster City, Pennsylvania, which is one of the best places to live in America, constantly.

Peter Barber 4:09

Absolutely, absolutely one of the best places to work. Lifelong resident here, and I I have no shame in saying I'm a total homer.

Marc Bernstein 4:15

You're and a cheerleader for the city. And we um we met in person for the first time a couple weeks ago at a big celebration for the 20th anniversary of Fig, which is the City Magazine, that brand who's been on the show and has co-hosted the show. And I've just discovered, I mean, I went to Lancaster as a kid and I knew about the Amish, and I knew about the host farm, and I knew about Dutch Wonderland, which was great.

Peter Barber 4:41

Much, much more to Lancaster than that.

Marc Bernstein 4:43

Right. I had no idea. So now I have a really good idea. It's a really great place to hang out, and everybody should visit there. So Peter Barber, as I mentioned, is the co-founder and owner of Two Dudes Painting Company, which has been the driving force behind the and he's been the driving force behind the company's success for over 38 years. You must be older than you look. Starting with just two dudes and an iconic orange VW bus, which I know is known all around Lancaster. Peter has strategically grown the company to include a team of over 90 employees, all while maintaining a commitment to positively impacting the community. And that I got a little from his media person, um, some of his community involvement, and it is amazing. It's like I don't I don't know how he does it all. I think I'm a pretty involved person, but that's your resume is is is incredible. So welcome, Peter.

Peter Barber 5:39

Thank you very much. Thanks for having me down here.

Marc Bernstein 5:40

And let's talk about your story, let's make sure we get to some of your community involvement as well. But tell us about you know your humble beginnings and how you started and got into this uh business that you're in today.

Peter Barber 5:52

Sure. So, you know, it's not not a news story for lots of folks, particularly um in a simple trade like this. You know, as a student at Franklin and Marshall College, never left Lancaster. You know, Franklin Marshall College is five blocks from my house.

Marc Bernstein 6:04

Happened to be a great school.

Peter Barber 6:06

Awesome, unbelievable school, and still have uh some really great connections there, you know, and started uh the painting business as a way to pay for college. Uh came from a pretty humble family. My dad's a school teacher, mom's a part-time nurse, four kids.

Marc Bernstein 6:20

Yeah, I didn't know that when I said humble beginnings are really just humble thing.

Peter Barber 6:24

You know, and and you know, actually, and all all four kids wound up with phenomenal educations just based on the work that everyone did. You know, actually uh my older brother and I both went to Franklin Marshall, a sister went to NYU, brother, another brother at Duquesne University. Oh great schools. And this is all on you know, very humble things that my family had, just based on the hard work that everybody did in their lives. Hard work uh educationally, strategically, and just financially to really make things work. So started the business then.

Marc Bernstein 6:53

Where were you in the birth order? I was number two. Number two, kind of all successful today, your siblings?

Peter Barber 6:58

Um, incredible. It's crazy. It's you know somebody said to me once, is this your brother? And I'm like, yeah, that's right. Man, it's like, how do you guys all do these things that are really successful? Parents must be proud. And they are. My parents are extremely proud. That's nice. Um so you know, ran this painting business through my career at FM and didn't you know certainly had no anticipation of continuing to do this, but uh graduated from FM. I took a short-term job, uh, I was actually teaching history and economics, loved it. And I thought I was gonna get and wind up with a teaching career. My father was a teacher, as I spoke, spoke about, and just really found a lot of satisfaction there. I ended up going back to school to get my teaching certification, and there just weren't a whole lot of jobs available. And I was remember applying for one job locally, there were 400 applicants for one position. And by this point, you know, we start

Going Full Time And Doubling Growth

Peter Barber 7:45

we we started having kids. I had two kids by this point. That's all this is going on.

Marc Bernstein 7:50

Twice since uh adjunct professor Franklin Marshall down the road, maybe could happen.

Peter Barber 7:54

That'd be a lot of fun. It'd be quite an honor to be teaching at that school. Um and so this business has always been a part-time piece to either going to school full-time, teaching, you know, raising family, and so made this decision of like, well, let's just let's focus on it and and run it for real. And so by then, you know, it was my partner, uh Brian McCaskey, who's a high school buddy. We were good friends through all this. And uh you know, we hired our our friend, actually, usually it ended up being his roommates that needed rent money. We would hire them or you know, my brothers, they all worked for us, family who worked for us. Kind of very typical, you know, small towny kind of stuff. And so decided to focus on the business for a year and like, holy smokes, he did that for a year, and we doubled our business and we we actually were profitable and we had things happen. It's like this is amazing how this can actually work like this. So then kind of knuckled down to okay, what's it gonna take to really make this thing run? And so really started focusing on things, started uh driving our business, you know, putting some strategic planning around what was going on. So we've grown and grown and grown. Like you said, we've got about 90 people working for us right now. Um, you know, work all throughout central Pennsylvania, down even down towards this way into Philly. We've done some jobs downtown in Philly, uh out in Chester County, lots of stuff in that that area. So and just looking around how we can continue to grow, how we continue to build success, and how we can continue to thrive in what we're doing. Um the one foundational piece of this, and I I think I've mentioned this to you before, it's you know, I never envisioned myself as a painting contractor. I mean, I you know I you know, I I I do love pe I was so as a history major, love and we do a lot of historic restoration work. That's phenomenal, and that's very fulfilling for us. I was an art minor, so we do a lot of uh we have a specialty uh fine arts division that does public murals, specialty things around our business.

Marc Bernstein 9:48

You're not just a painting contractor.

Peter Barber 9:49

We are not just a painting contractor. We all we have all these like fun special things that we do. I mean, there's but the foundation of it still is just you know putting paint on walls. Right. Um but that's not the most fulfilling thing.

Marc Bernstein 10:01

And what's really fulfilling By the way, I might want to get a retirement job with you. Yeah. Well, listen, I'm I'm very unhandy. But the one thing I've always liked, because for me it's like meditation, is painting, painting walls. Well, I was an artist too as a kid, but but I but I like the idea of just it's very relaxing to me to paint paint a room.

Peter Barber 10:22

Well, one of the things that I mean, one of the things that is very rewarding about it is it's a transformative experience. Right. Any paint job is usually some transformative experience. And I've seen that even with our employees. It's like what mo what what motivates you as an employee to do stuff? It's like, well, we I I just like to see things change. I like to be part of that change process. And and so that's what we do. That's how we help to motivate our people and that they get it.

Marc Bernstein 10:44

It's like immediate self-gratification painting something. It really is.

Peter Barber 10:47

And and there's a tremendous amount of pride in the work that you do. I mean sure, you can take you know tremendous pride in you know building a great spreadsheet or selling you some new health insurance or life insurance policies. But this is like this is tangible, tangible, you know. Visceral kind of pride in the in the work that you do. And so that you know, that that certainly drives me to a certain point to see that, to s and to see the kind of pleasure that we bring to people and the the fulfillment that we bring to people. But even more than that is understanding how we can take our business and leverage the power of our business into doing other things within the community and leveraging that into making really real impact in the people around us. And whether that's impact with our employees, impact with other organizations, impact with just folks in the community and and seeing that manage and happen and do something different.

Marc Bernstein 11:40

Gotcha. I was uh just sorry about that, just checking the time to see where we are because I I lost track of what time we actually started. This is a timed show for radio. So okay, we got two minutes to break. There you go. Thank you, Eric. We're talking too much here. No, no, no, no, it's having too much fun. I told you it goes quickly. It's unbelievable. So let's talk about, we always like to talk about you know entrepreneurship. So it sounds easy. You got starting college, you you know, immediately making a profit. So it's been like a smooth ride all the way to the Trevor Burrus.

Peter Barber 12:10

Yeah. No challenges along the way. You know, we've just been rolling in the dough forever. I mean, it's all the good stuff. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

Marc Bernstein 12:16

So tell us about some of some of the challenges, and then we'll talk about how you handle those after the break. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

Peter Barber 12:21

Sure.

Professionalizing A “Low Value” Trade

Peter Barber 12:22

So I mean yeah, we I mean any any business goes through this period of challenges and what's and one of the one of the things we again we were just talking about this this morning is the we got into this. This is like a therapy session. This is a this is a little therapeutic for me. But you know, we're we're I was talking with my management team. It's like, well, you know, it's not my fault that we wound up in this profession that has kind of low low perceived value to a lot of folks. And so, you know, everybody's got their like, you know, crazy uncle or their cousin that needs some help or their buddy that's going into therapy that tells you that they'll paint your house for you. And so it's just creates this cycle of perceived low, you know, it's like, oh, anybody can do this role.

Marc Bernstein 13:03

Right.

Peter Barber 13:03

And but we're we're we're professionalizing it. You know, we're trying to make it a professional service to people and get them to understand, yeah, there's and there's professionalism around the craftsmanship of the work is is one piece of it, but it's also just about the whole process of doing the work. And you know, and that took some time to get to and to really understand it because frankly, you know, we started the job, we started painting because it was, you know, such a low barrier to entry that any anybody could do it. And we were a couple college kids that we didn't really know what we were doing, but we had, you know, I I talk about this a lot of of having pure and honest intent behind behind what we did. That you know, we're just you know, Brian and I, we're we're good, you know, lifelong Catholic school kids that just like are are here to deliver the best that we can. And the best that we could do, you know, people saw that and saw that you know, we're trying to deliver something valuable to them and just continue that move forward.

Marc Bernstein 13:58

Um so you're you're really what you're doing, and we're going through a similar journey in our business all of the time too. 40 years I've been in my business and I'm doing this. And it's you know, we we do something also that could be perceived as a commodity, but we want to do something much more special than that. And how do you communicate that? And how do you get your employees to understand that and build a culture around that, and ultimately your customers to to uh to understand that as well.

Peter Barber 14:25

Yeah, and that's and that was that was easy to do when I I was out on the job every day. But you know, getting our guys and our field staff to have that same level of pride in our work, and which they do, I mean, and but it's it's that starts at the top. Get them to understand and value that investment.

Marc Bernstein 14:40

That gets to company culture too, which we'll talk about right after the break. All right.

Two Dudes Painting Company Message

Announcer 14:46

More than thirty years ago, Two Dudes Painting was founded in Lancaster, PA, by two college students with a simple mission: to deliver an amazing experience with every paint job. From those early beginnings, we've grown into a trusted team of professionals. However, our original promise remains the core of our business: Quality work, on time, with zero hassle. Today, Two Dudes Painting is known not just for painting excellence and providing quality service for over three decades, but also for our strong commitment to our team and community—a commitment symbolized by the iconic VW bus we still drive. Our success is a direct reflection of the dedicated people we hire and the strong relationships we build. We don't just paint; we raise the bar across the industry. Ready to transform your home or business? Contact us today for a free, no-obligation estimate and experience the difference with your Dudes for Life. Find us online at twodudespainting.com or call us at 717-396-1207.

Building A Service First Culture

Marc Bernstein 16:01

We're back on Founders Forum with my guest today, Peter Barber. And uh so what you just talked about brings up a lot of things I want to ask you, but I'll start with company culture because it sounds like that's something you've worked hard at. How would you describe the culture? Um the the well, you talked a little bit about the challenge of building it, but all how that's turned out and and and and where you stand today with your culture, and how would you describe the culture itself?

Peter Barber 16:28

Yeah, so the foundation of our culture is is really around service, service to our employees, and it extends broader spectrum to service to our community. And and you know, even in our mission statements, we talk about you know kind of having this obligation to our employees, our our customers, and our community. And that's kind of the the basis of where we start from and realizing that that culture, if we think about service to our employees, and that's inter-employee too. So it's not just from a top only, but it's like amongst each other. So we have crews, you know, I think we have eighty crew eighty people, so they're all they're all over the place. And they're all remote, you know. It's it's a completely remote workforce. So we have to depend on the leadership of those teams to make sure that they're treating their employees, their fellow employees in great ways, providing that level of service to our customers and getting them there, and then understanding our commitment and obligation that we've made to the community as well. So, you know, really culture is is starts with that service, starts and you know, it goes on, extends into the pride that we have in the work. And, you know, the culture has always been, you know, come on, let's face it, we're driving around in old Volkswagen buses. So you gotta have some fun while you're doing this stuff, right? Right. You know, and it it's it's kind of seems, you know, it's kind of trite to just, you know, talk about, oh, you know, work hard, play hard kind of stuff. And it's not, you know, yeah, that's that's part of it. But it's like, you know, we want to have fun with what we're doing. We want to enjoy ourselves, we want to enjoy each other. And that's you know, somebody stands out really quickly when they don't enjoy the work that they're doing and doesn't enjoy being around other people. Right. They're I mean, their frontline customer service, you know, they're they're walking into your house, they're seeing you, they're petting the dog when they first get there, they're doing all the things, and if if they don't know how to do that right, we we've we've kind of lost it. And so we train very specifically on those things. We one of our first days of training is you know, how to how to give a handshake, you know, how to look somebody in the eye, how to smile. You know, it seems so fun fundamental.

Marc Bernstein 18:26

But I would guess there's not that many painting contractors that spend time on that. Right. Right.

Peter Barber 18:31

They don't.

Marc Bernstein 18:32

It's the little things.

Peter Barber 18:33

Yeah, it really is. And and so from little things like that, just just having that eye-to-eye contact, having you know an you know a pleasant hello in the morning, it's you know, that just starts the day and it it it is foundational to how they interact with our customers.

Marc Bernstein 18:47

Aaron Ross Powell, but it goes beyond that because I know two dudes, I know you're very involved in the community, literally in community. So service in terms of your business, but then there's the also the direct community service that you do. Yep. And do you get your employees involved in that as well?

Peter Barber 19:02

Aaron Powell So we have different ways that we get people involved. I mean, our uh our leadership staff, I mean we have expectations around their commitment and involvement in the community. I mean, Lankster has a wonderful program like a lot of communities, they have a leadership blancaster program that is all around how to engage people. We've had people go through that program.

Paid Volunteering That Actually Gets Used

Peter Barber 19:21

And but we want to make sure that that's not just uh kind of an elite opportunity for the office staff to do things, but we want to make sure that our field staff has opportunities to be engaged in the community as well. So one of the things that we have is every employee has three, three days, 24 hours a year for them to do community, you know, it's paid community volunteer work. And so um and when we f when we first put that in, we're like, this is awesome, you know, everybody's gonna have this opportunity to take time off, they can go volunteer, do different things. And one of the things we realized is but there's a lot of people that don't know how to volunteer, which which sounds really goofy, you know, it's like, oh, but they just they either they weren't brought up in a mindset of how to volunteer or even where to volunteer. So what we found now is that you know, we we have to structure and organize volunteer days for them and organize events that they can specifically go to volunteer. So we we work with the Langster Conservat Lancaster County Conservancy. Um, we spent uh day last year with 24 of our employees pulling invasive weeds from one of their conservation areas. And you know, everybody it was great. It was it was good work for everybody, it was it was team building because we were all working together, you know, pulling thorny weeds and doing horrible things. But it it you know, everybody found a purpose behind it. And you know, again, much like we talked about how the paint jobs can be very rewarding because there's an immediate visceral response to the transformation. You know, we took an acre of land and pulled out, you know, and cleared all this land in the forest out of all the invasive species. So it's just doing things like that.

Marc Bernstein 20:56

And as a result, I got to think that you're um first of all, painting contracting business, I would assume has a lot of turnover in general. And I'm assuming that you have a lot less of that because of the culture you've built and because of the way you're engaging your employees.

Peter Barber 21:11

Yeah. Painting contractors in general, they're a they're a transient lot of people. There's there's lots of musicians, artists, you know, people that just are looking at. I've had clients that are painting contractors too, so I've had some experience with that. So yeah, we try to give people a reason to stay. We're always going to deal with some level of churn within, you know, with 80 people, there's always gonna be some level of churn. But the foundation and and like our leadership, even our field leadership, I mean, that's a really solid base of like 25, 30 people that have been here, have been here for a long time, have been part of the things, they they understand our culture and really believe in what our culture is all about.

Marc Bernstein 21:50

Aaron Powell So turnover is not a big issue for you, it doesn't sound like it used to be.

Peter Barber 21:55

But it's you know, since we've been able to really define what our expectations are, it's it's just

Marc Bernstein 22:01

So much I want to ask you in so little time.

Scaling Relationships Beyond Lancaster

Marc Bernstein 22:04

But let's let's talk about for a second um your future vision. It's one of the big things about this show, and this will lead back to some of my other questions, I think. But if this were December of 2028, three years from now, and you and I are speaking, which I hope we will be, and we're looking back on the last three years, what would have to happen in your life and your business for you to feel that that was a successful period of progress in your life?

Peter Barber 22:32

So three years from now, we're what we're really looking to do is continue to grow and expand the business, both uh within the service offerings that we provide and the geography that we're we're covering. Um Yeah, we talked, I mean we're we're based in Langster, Pennsylvania, and so that's centr central Pennsylvania is pretty much um well defined in terms of our service area. But uh in fact, we just hired somebody this past year up in Carlisle area, which is just outside of Harrisburg. We do work up there now, but not it's kind of a ancillary thing. It's like, no, we need to establish home base up there. So trying to do that and make sure that we have uh business development work that's happening there and workforce that's established there. And so that's again topic of conversation. How are we how are we targeting specifically development of workforce in that space? How are you developing uh business models up there? Uh looking to do the same thing in Chester County. And we have uh we do work down here now, but it's just the occasional thing pops up here and there. And how do we get, you know, and it's probably you know, our business was built on relationships. I mean, I you know, and that's been my role. I mean, I've been the big biggest business development person that we could possibly imagine. And so but this guy up that we have up in Harrisburg, he's doing a great job doing business development work and really driving that. And so need seeing the need to do that in in the internet. You need to start cloning yourself into families.

Marc Bernstein 24:02

That's that's too easy to interesting. So um so that's business anything on the personal side in your three-year vision?

Stepping Back Without Losing The Mission

Peter Barber 24:13

So by that point, I mean part of this plan of growth is um to look to see how do I get myself out of this business. Um I love it, but I think that there's probably something more for me somewhere, somehow. Uh by that point I will have been running this painting business for 41 years. And it's I enjoy it. I mean, don't get me wrong, I I really love what I'm doing, but I'm not sure if that's the end purpose of what I'm doing. And I you know, grandkids now, and you know, running a business takes a lot of your time. And we've got a really great executive team. And so what that transformation looks like, I you know, it may just be that my role steps back, that I'm still involved in the business, but I don't, you know, I'm hoping that it's in a different spot than what it is right now and continues to evolve and continues to see the success that we've had over the years.

Marc Bernstein 25:08

So um with I'm just thinking about that. So uh how how large is your leadership team at home?

Peter Barber 25:15

So right now we there's four of us. Okay. Yeah, so myself, COO, uh director of HR, and a director of operations.

Marc Bernstein 25:23

Is Brian still in the business with you?

Peter Barber 25:25

Brian is not. He's uh he retired about two and a half years ago.

Marc Bernstein 25:30

And you and your team. Gotcha. Um what what uh challenges do you see in terms of the three-year vision ahead?

Peter Barber 25:38

Um, foundationally it's about how do we how do we replicate this stuff and how do we replicate what we've done in Lancaster in other areas.

Marc Bernstein 25:48

It's really like a scaling issue, scaling the business to a certain extent. Right.

Peter Barber 25:51

And again, uh you know, I talked about how so much of this was um just like personal involvement. And it's it doesn't even need to be personal involvement of Pete, but it needs to be personal involvement of somebody. It's relationship-based. Uh so much of the stuff is foundational there. And a lot of those relationships have been built through community service work that we've done and community service work that I've been involved with. Um I've volunteer a tremendous amount of my time to a lot of organizations throughout Langster.

Marc Bernstein 26:19

Again, you should see his resume.

Peter Barber 26:20

It's amazing. But it's everything from you know, our chamber of commerce, which Langster has an incredibly strong chamber of commerce and been inv was involved with that, chaired the board the board of the chamber of commerce for years, down to the neighborhood group uh where our office is located. I sit on the board of that little neighborhood group, which is like the the most incredible. You know, so so many boards that I've sat on over the years, they're you know, people really know what they're doing, they're experienced in board service. Being in this neighborhood board, I mean it's it it is the most pure like feet on the street kind of things. They're just they're just neighbors that want to help out. And we're trying to create structure around how we make that and how we make that really effective.

Reading, Reflection, And The Second Mountain

Marc Bernstein 27:00

That's really cool. I know you're a reader, right? What uh what do you like to read? What books are you reading at the moment?

Peter Barber 27:07

Uh so like any good reader, I've got a bunch of different books going on right now. Right.

Marc Bernstein 27:11

Uh do you not finish them all like me?

Peter Barber 27:14

No. I well, it depends. Some of them I don't, some of them I do. Uh I don't get to read a lot of fiction. Um I wish I could read more fiction. I just don't find I have the time for it. But I'm a huge John Irving fan. Uh and he just has a new book out, so I'm I'm reading that right now. Um so that's a lot of fun. But then actually relative to even to what our future kind of future vision is, um I'm also reading uh the book uh Second Mountain. I don't know if you've heard that someone else mentioned that, but I've not read it. And uh it's it's really interesting. It's and it and really it's you know, f at its foundation, it's all about you know, the first mountain of your life is you know establishing yourself, your business, your career, your family, all these kinds of things. And you and and that might be the high high point of your life, or it might not be, but there's probably some other second mountain you know, what's the next thing? And I read it about five years ago and I'm rereading it now because I'm I'm actually gonna get involved with a group of folks that are you know that that are pondering this issue very deeply. And um so rereading it now with a different mindset, it's it's really fascinating how uh just approach what that uh next phase of my life might be.

Closing Thoughts And Sign Off

Marc Bernstein 28:34

Well, believe it or not, the time has come. We're out of time. I have more so many more questions and so little time. Two part two. We could talk about that. Thank you, Peter, for being here today. It's been great. Thank all of you for listening, and we'll see you next week on Founders Forum.

Announcer 28:54

Founders Founders’ Forum was brought to you in part, by March Forward, LLC. We partner with entrepreneurs like you to assist in accomplishing your future vision. Your life. Your business. Your legacy. Comprehensive wealth planning that starts with you -- not a product. We hope you enjoyed your time with Founders’ Forum and that you found something of value to take with you throughout your day. Join us again next week for another episode of Founders’ Forum on WWDB 860 AM Philadelphia, or on your favorite podcast streaming service. Securities offered through DFPG Investments, LLC (“DFPG”) Investment Advisory Services offered through Diversify Advisory Services, LLC (“Diversify”). DAS and DFPG are affiliated entities. March is unaffiliated with DAS and DFPG. Member FINRA/SIPC The information provided in this podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and should not be interpreted as investment advice. The views expressed are those of the host and guests and do not necessarily reflect the views of Diversify or DFPG.