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The following programming is sponsored by Marc J. Bernstein. The views expressed do not necessarily reflect the views of this station, its management, or Beasly Media Group. Entrepreneur, founder, author and financial advisor, Marc Bernstein helps high-performing business owners turn their visions into reality. At March Forward, Marc and his partners and associates think out of the box to partner with their clients in regards to their visions for their lives, their businesses and their legacies. And through his innovative work with the Forward Focus Forums, Marc connects entrepreneurs to resources that help to fuel their success. Founders’ Forum is a radio show and podcast where entrepreneurs share their journeys, revealing the stories behind their successes, and the lessons they’ve learned. Join Marc and his guests for a mix of inspiration, valuable insights, and a bit of fun! Now, let’s dive in...

Life After Selling A Company

Announcer 0:52

in.

Marc Bernstein 0:52

Good morning, America. How are you? So with me today is Justin Tennant, who um you may have heard his show already. He was founder and lead executive of a company that he has since exited called Surgical Product Solutions. Welcome back, Justin. Thank you. Appreciate it. And Paul is here, and I'll Paul Spiegel, and I'll introduce him formally in a minute. But good morning, Paul.

Paul Spiegel 1:17

Good morning. Thanks for having me here today.

Marc Bernstein 1:19

My pleasure, Paul. And um Justin is going to ask Paul a question that we actually discussed on the show that we did with him to start off our thought for the day, and then we'll get into Paul's story.

Justin Tennant 1:31

Yeah, when this question was asked to me, I said that that's a pretty loaded question because I think uh, you know, we're we're we're living it and trying to figure it out as time goes. But uh the loaded question is what's your experience with your post-transition? You know, what what what are you filling your time with? You know, what what's your next ambitions after exit?

Paul Spiegel 1:51

Well, I sold the company in July of 2020 and I signed a two-year contract with that engineering firm that purchased us. Uh, so I would work for them for two years, and my company would become a division in their company. After the two years were up, they asked me to continue on, and so I stayed on uh working about 30 hours a week. And then uh just last year I retired completely, which means I still work about eight hours per week. And I kind of get involved in the things that I want to. Um, we're an environmental and energy conservation uh company, and so it's something I would probably be doing as a volunteer if I wasn't getting paid for it. So it's a passion. Yeah, and so I choose to get paid for it.

Justin Tennant 2:43

No, that's great. Yeah, I think learning slowly how to have more time on your hands, but it seems like your work was your passion, so you would be doing it anyway.

Paul Spiegel 2:53

Aaron Powell Yeah, and and a lot of my employees were actually volunteers in different organizations, and so there's there's definitely a passion top to bottom for what we do, helping building owners reduce their energy consumption and reduce their environmental impact.

Marc Bernstein 3:11

There's a little overlap with your company there too, Justin, on that. Because he also he had a very ingrained culture that continues post-exit, which is pretty cool. So Paul Spiegel is PE lead AP and founder, as we mentioned, of practical energy solutions, and was president for 15 years. And now he's senior energy advisor for practical energy solutions, now a division of SSM Group. And Paul's got over 40 years of experience in commercial building design and construction and energy evaluations of existing buildings. The first 20 years were primarily spent as project manager for quality assurance on large high-profile projects, which you'll know if you're from Philadelphia and you may know if you're not. Uh the Pennsylvania Convention Center, Wells Fargo Center, which is now the uh the Xfinity Mobile Arena, right? I was just there. I finally learned the name.

Paul Spiegel 4:10

It's had five names since we first started doing the design on the project.

Marc Bernstein 4:14

It was the original Core States, I think, right? Yeah, Core State Center. Yeah.

Paul Spiegel 4:18

Spectrum 2 Arena was also on.

Marc Bernstein 4:20

Oh, is that right? I don't remember that one. Anyway, Lincoln Financial Field, the Kimmel Center, the Borgata Hotel and Casino in Atlantic City, and Citizens Bank Park, and Wyatt World Headquarters, the Sierra Center, major commercial building in Philadelphia, among many others. The next 20 years were spent uh providing energy expertise and consulting to commercial building owners, and practical energy is providing ongoing support services for over a thousand buildings in the region.

From Engineering To Business Skills

Marc Bernstein 4:48

So I want to start out with college because we went to the same school. Yes. So you're fighting Blue Hen, and you study, you started out in chemical engineering, but didn't end up in that, right? Aaron Ross Powell, Jr.

Paul Spiegel 5:00

That's correct. Chemical engineering was a very competitive major at Delaware. There was 200 of us in the freshman class, and they only had room for 50 in the junior class. So they weeded people out pretty quickly, and I was one of the first to go. I wasn't one of the I wasn't the greatest student. Um you were weeded or wet out.

Marc Bernstein 5:21

Weeded out. Yeah.

Paul Spiegel 5:22

They the first day they said, look to your left, look to your right, look in front of you. Only one of you will be here in two years. And I started making plans then. Aaron Ross Powell, Jr.

Marc Bernstein 5:31

That's even harder to law school. They said that to us in law school, but they just said look to your left, look to your right. They didn't. I thought they only said that in movies. No, they I it was true about law school, uh and I'm sure it was it there too.

Paul Spiegel 5:43

Aaron Powell Yeah. So I kind of leaned towards electrical engineering over the over the next semesters and decided I didn't want to be an engineer, so I changed my major to business and I took economics and changed my major my junior year and graduated with semester late.

Marc Bernstein 6:01

Aaron Powell But tell me if I'm wrong, but I think you've used a lot of engineering in your in your business.

Paul Spiegel 6:05

Yeah, and um and a lot of my business knowledge in engineering because I was hired by a company that hired me as an intern engineer as a summer job, and they liked my work, and I graduated during one of the great recessions that we've had, and so they offered me a job, and I learned the technical stuff on the job. Uh something with engineering companies is they promote people who are really good engineers and make them managers, but they don't necessarily understand the business, the financial, the management elements of it. And so I did pretty well in that regard.

Marc Bernstein 6:47

Even you know what, I'm gonna nominate you for outstanding alumnus at the University of Delaware in engineering.

unknown 6:53

Oh.

Marc Bernstein 6:53

Just kind of throw it back in their faces. What do you think? Yeah, yeah.

Paul Spiegel 6:56

They someone would get a good laugh out of that.

Marc Bernstein 6:59

That would be fun. So anyway, so you were so you were plugging along, doing that kind of work. And and when did you what what where did the entrepreneurial bug come from and when did you start practical energy solutions?

The Entrepreneurial Bug Shows Up Early

Paul Spiegel 7:13

Um I always had the entrepreneurial bug. And when someone someone asked me that question a few years ago about when did I start earning money? And my first job, I was 11 years old delivering newspapers. I was uh I would cut lawns, I caddied at a golf course.

Marc Bernstein 7:32

Aaron Powell I did all three of those things myself.

Paul Spiegel 7:34

My brother and sister never worked until they were in college. And I I had been working since I was eleven and and always had something going on.

Marc Bernstein 7:43

But you when you came out of school, you were employed for a while, right?

Paul Spiegel 7:46

Yes, I was employed for uh 18 years. So did that drive you crazy? Um I got promoted to management, and so I got to manage one of the big projects that I managed as my first project was the construction of the Wells Fargo Center.

Marc Bernstein 8:05

So you didn't mind sticking around for that, right?

Paul Spiegel 8:07

Yeah, yeah. I was actually I I was a big Flyers fan, and being in meetings with Ed Snyder and the design team was just over the top.

Marc Bernstein 8:17

Yeah. So then what w if you were having such a good time there, what caused you to break away and start your company?

Walmart Sparks The Energy Pivot

Paul Spiegel 8:24

Um I had a headhunter come after me. There was a company that did the same work that we did, but uh they didn't have a local office and they wanted to get into the local market here. And so they basically offered me a job to start an office, which is basically start my own company. Um I had to search for office space, I had to hire all the staff. Um so we set up an office in Brumall and I worked with them for a little over four years and built it up within a month of opening the office. We signed a contract with the Eagles to monitor the construction of Lincoln Financial Field. And six months later the Phillies hired us for Citizens Bank Park, and um it just took off. We we were up to 28 employees in like 12 months.

Marc Bernstein 9:18

So that that was your company then at that point? No, that was that was a previous company.

Paul Spiegel 9:22

That was a previous company, and then I had an opportunity that came up through of all places, Walmart. Walmart was a big client, and we did a lot of building evaluations for them, and they had an architect that went to all of their new stores and did an infrared analysis, and they were behind schedule on a whole bunch of them, and they asked me if we could take care of that for them nationwide. And I I called the CEO, I was like, you know, we have to get infrared equipment, we have to get all of this uh all the people trained to use it. And and he asked me, Well, how much revenue did you have from Walmart last year? I was like, Oh, a $1.1 million dollars. It's like go buy the equipment, get your people trained, and you know, go for it. Right. And and so um that got me started in the energy business, which I I had really no familiarity with whatsoever.

Marc Bernstein 10:23

Oh, so up to that point you hadn't done that?

Paul Spiegel 10:26

I hadn't done any energy, it was all construction and design work on large buildings.

Marc Bernstein 10:31

It wasn't about sustainability or energy efficiency or any of that at that point.

Paul Spiegel 10:35

And I I I met someone at the training course I took down in Florida. I figured I'd train myself and then teach the people who worked for me. Uh by that time I was actually a professor at Temple University part-time, and so I was pretty um confident in my training skills.

Marc Bernstein 10:54

Right.

Paul Spiegel 10:54

So so yeah, so we got the equipment and got things moving, and I met someone at that training that had started an energy company up in Vermont and I was fascinated with his description of his business, and I asked if he had ever set anyone up in business, and he helped me get started, uh, gave me some templates, gave me some things to train on. I spent my next two vacations up in Vermont working with him. And I was uh by that point, I was the regional vice president for this large engineering company, and I quit my job to start a company with a partner that provided energy consulting services for large building owners.

Marc Bernstein 11:39

That was practical energy solutions. That was practical energy solutions.

Paul Spiegel 11:42

That was in 2006.

Marc Bernstein 11:44

So he had already established that company.

Paul Spiegel 11:48

His company was called Kilowatt.

Marc Bernstein 11:50

Okay.

Paul Spiegel 11:51

He just gave me support and I paid him an hourly fee to provide technical support. And he provided some software tools and other stuff.

Marc Bernstein 12:01

Okay. So you started that. So what so describe what practical practical energy solutions did. Like if you a new client comes to you, what what would you do for them? Aaron

Selling Savings And Learning Energy Audits

Marc Bernstein 12:12

Ross Powell, Jr.

Paul Spiegel 12:12

The story has changed over the years because um because our our initial service was just to evaluate how a building is operated and look at the systems that use the most energy and find ways for them to manage those systems better. So they weren't buying anything, they weren't paying for solar panels or or buying geothermal systems to heat and cool their building. They just had to manage and maintain the systems and control them better. And and we were going to do that for half the savings. So we would set their baseline energy use, and anything we save them over the next two years, they would pay us half. And it was one of those things that was um too good to be true um to some people. And so it if it sounded too good to be true, it must not be true. And so we had a little issue with selling that service. And when I'd go in to talk about it, they'd say, Well, do you do energy audits? And I'd say, No, we don't do energy audits. And that happened maybe five or six times. And the seventh person that asked me, Do you do energy audits? I said, Yes, we do. He said, Well, can you come into my 22 buildings campus here in Pottstown and and help us? That was the Hill School and help us save energy here because we're leaking money.

Marc Bernstein 13:41

It's a little parallel to you too, there, with with learning how to convey the right message to who your customers are, right? 100%. Yeah.

Paul Spiegel 13:48

Yeah. And we figured out how to do how to do it. Got some templates, did some you know, red stuff, and actually became Yeah.

Justin Tennant 13:57

That that I think that's called fake it till you make it, right? Yeah. I mean that's the whole yeah.

Marc Bernstein 14:04

Uh did you have a follow-up question for Paul? Are you good? Oh good, okay. Okay. Um we all we only have about a minute to break, actually. So um let me ask you this. So what we always ask about the challenges, you know. So so at that point you started doing energy audits. And what happened after that, and what challenges did you face in the future in the business?

Paul Spiegel 14:28

Well, we got pretty good at doing energy audits um and and just that first project, it was 22 different buildings. But a challenge we faced was that um no one had to get an energy audit. Where my previous business, every con large construction project has to have a quality assurance company evaluating to make sure they're building it to the design standards. And so we had to first sell them on the fact that they should care about their energy use, and then from there sell them on the fact that they should use us to do something about it.

Marc Bernstein 15:06

Right. So I gotcha. So perfect opportunity to take a break. We'll be right back on Founders Forum.

Announcer 15:11

Twenty years ago, Paul Spiegel founded Practical Energy Solutions with a focus on helping organizations make smarter decisions about energy, facilities, and long-term performance. Today, that expertise continues as part of Spots, Stevens, and McCoy. For two decades, our team has helped clients across healthcare, higher education, municipal, and industrial markets improve efficiency, strengthen resilience, and maximize the value of their facilities. As energy systems become more complex and infrastructure continues to age, organizations need practical solutions that connect energy strategy with engineering, infrastructure, and capital planning. And at SSM, we're proud to build on that legacy, helping clients create efficient, resilient, high-performing facilities today while preparing for the challenges ahead. Spots, Stevens, and McCoy celebrating 20 years of energy performance and resilient solutions.

Hiring For Culture When Talent Is Rare

Marc Bernstein 16:15

We're back on Founders Forum with Justin Tenant as uh co-host today in the studio, and Paul Spiegel as our guest. And Paul, we were talking about challenges that you had. Tell us about your company culture and how that was built and what it what, if any, challenges you had in regard to that.

Paul Spiegel 16:33

The first challenge that we faced is it wasn't a the services that we were providing were not commonly provided by other companies. And so you weren't able to go out and hire an experienced person to come in. And so we'd have to hire someone that had what we thought was a background that fit well, and we hoped that they were able to step up and learn through the training we provided and learn about how to provide the service. But there were also people that I hired that, like the first person I hired, her name's Diane Heron, she was our client contact in charge of the environmental committee for Westchester Borough. She was doing all the work for their environmental committee. And so I brought her on board and she said, basically, in our negotiation for how we would use her and what we would pay her, she said, I would work for you for free because I love what you're doing so much. I was like, okay, let's start the negotiation there and we'll work our way up. Um and she still, even though she took a few stints away from the company, she was mayor of Westchester. She was our state legislative representative for two years. But she's back working for the company now. Oh, she is. Has been for a few years now.

Marc Bernstein 17:52

So And she got it, I guess.

Paul Spiegel 17:54

She got it. Yeah. She she's taking care of some of our largest projects right now. I hired a couple of engineers, and one of them worked out amazingly. He's been with me, his first job out of college. Um he's been with me for 16 years.

Marc Bernstein 18:11

Aaron Ross Powell So I'm thinking what what was a difficulty finding people that had experience turned into an asset in a way because if they learn from you and they got this unique ability, because no no one else out there is doing it, they're probably pretty sticky in terms of wanting to continue with the company at that point.

Paul Spiegel 18:29

Aaron Powell Absolutely. We were able to find a work environment as well as a subject matter that they really fit with and that they were passionate about. I I had one of the engineers I hired, we wanted them to do computer modeling of building energy performance. And it means putting in all of the aspects of the building into this modeling software, and it would spit out what your energy consumption is going to be every hour for the entire year. And got him some outside training on it. But then from there on, when we had a we got got a couple of contracts to do that work, he would come in on Monday morning and say, I spent all weekend on the users group asking questions, and I learned this, this, and this, and now we can do this. And and he can't it was almost every Monday. He he would come in with something new that he learned over the weekend. He he was just driven because he just enjoyed that kind of thing

Grassroots Demand For Energy Efficiency

Paul Spiegel 19:33

so much.

Marc Bernstein 19:33

So I have I'm gonna ask you a question out of c curiosity, because right now in the current administration, it's not exactly um an environmentally friendly administration in terms of, you know, sort of tearing apart the EPA, things like that. Yet we've had other people on the show. Uh one of them's Carbon Reform is a company that I know you've worked with. Yeah. And um and that, you know, it seems that i business is still oriented towards energy efficiency, clean air, clean water, all that kind of thing. What's your observation? Because obviously you're your c we'll get to your exit strategy, but your company had value, somebody wanted it. Tell me how all that works in the current environment. Like what's driving it?

Paul Spiegel 20:21

I think it's it's a grassroots level commitment to doing something about um both energy costs but also um environmental uh impacts of using energy. Uh we see it in business because many of those businesses made commitments. You know, a lot of the Fortune 500 companies have made commitments not just for their own operations, but all of their vendors as well. So that kind of puts their holds their feet to the fire to show what they've been doing to improve their environmental impact. And also at the municipal level, a grassroots thing there is almost every township in this region has an environmental activities committee, and they're pushing their boards to do something not just in municipal facilities, but to promote it within the business and residential community in their in their um townships.

Justin Tennant 21:21

Um it's not driven from from federal government, it's actually the local government as opposed to the government.

Paul Spiegel 21:26

Yeah, and it's the citizens that are demanding it and some of the business owners are demanding it. Our biggest market has been municipal, where we do not only the energy assessments and the show the cost versus the savings. But we also help them help them uh teach their community members what they can do. And so we're doing outreach, community outreach. And I'm speaking at events, open houses and environmental fairs and other things like that. And Uh it's been a really big opportunity for us. We've actually worked with I've lost count, but over eighty municipalities in just in southeastern PA. And there's no other company that I can think of that's worked with ten. Right. That's unbelievable or five. That's unbelievable. And and that includes the the city of Philadelphia, which is like fifty townships. You know, they've they've got six hundred and ninety buildings and they pay thirty million dollars a year for electricity. And so if we can save them ten percent in any one year, that's you know, that's amazing. We won that contract in 2011. It was a four-year contract, and they have to put it out every four years.

Justin Tennant 22:44

Wow.

Paul Spiegel 22:44

And we we won it for the fourth time, I guess, or fifth time. And so we're still doing that. Aaron Ross Powell, Jr.

Marc Bernstein 22:52

Well I kind of suspected the an that that answer to the question because I I'm dealing with it every day. Well, first of all, you both know that I live in a community part-time in Florida, Babcock Ranch, it's the first sustainable uh company, an energy efficient company, solar-powered, first solar-powered community in America. In fact, we have a whole series of podcasts coming out from the developer and the engineers that worked on it and all that. So, and that's, you know, in Florida's primarily a red state. I mean, it's not, you know, so it's not coming from the government, it's coming from but I I think in Florida because it's because it's on the coast and it's, you know, a lot of wildlife and all that kind of thing, I think it's it it it it it uh supersedes politics. People are just concerned about the environment there, you know, it just seems like a thing. So I guess that's the answer. Also, yesterday I was talking on uh on Zoom to a a future guest who's an entrepreneur, went to the Technion in in um in Israel, and he's doing a lot of work with food sustainability, which is something that we um we talked about um philanthropy, and that's my my family's involved in supporting um through the Technion for the food, the Carrasco Food Tech Center, it's called, which is all about feeding the world on an efficient and environmentally friendly basis and healthy basis. So there's all that kind of work being done. So it's really, really interesting. Okay, so anyway, let's get back to um your story.

The Sale To SSM And Stepping Back

Marc Bernstein 24:23

So well, let's what drove you to want to sell the business and how that how did that occur? Let's talk about that.

Paul Spiegel 24:29

Well, I knew at some point that I'd have to retire and and I hope to make a transition to something with a like a family-owned business and not a major uh international corporation, which is what I worked for before I started practical energy. Um and an opportunity came up where another full service engineering company that provided pretty much every engineering service that we don't provide, and they had tried to start an energy group a couple of times and it failed. And so they were able to bring us in. But it actually there was a synergy because of we had the same client base but different services, so they could now have offer a new service to existing clients. And those next three years are revenue, they were they were the three largest revenue years I've ever had for my company. And at the same time, we brought some more new people in that were hungry and excited about the work and that were able to fit certain management roles. And so I was able to pull back a little bit. I think I pulled back. I went to 32 hours a week, but I think all that really happened is I got paid less. I didn't work, I didn't take a day off every week. Right. But um but the group that has now taken over, I went from 32 hours a week to last January, a year and a half ago, I went to four to eight hours a week. And I do things like this and I speak at conferences and I go to meetings and but you are you are sticking to the four to eight hours a week now?

Marc Bernstein 26:14

I am. Oh good, good, good. I have one last quick question because we're almost out of time, believe it or not.

unknown 26:19

Okay.

A Book Pick On Better Workplaces

Marc Bernstein 26:20

I know you're a reader and I know you're a lifelong learner. What is your um what are you currently reading?

Paul Spiegel 26:26

I'm reading a book called I I I was worried that I would forget this. A work life worth living by Jeff Westfall. Uh-huh. And it talks about how to turn your workplace into something that people are motivated by and feel energized by. And his company has been nominated and voted, won awards for best workplace in Pennsylvania, best workplace in southeastern PA. And just an amazing company. He was the founder of Vertex, which is a computer tax software.

Marc Bernstein 27:01

Familiar with him. Yeah. Very interesting. So you're still at it. You're retired, but you're still curious, you're still learning.

Paul Spiegel 27:07

Yeah.

Marc Bernstein 27:07

You're still trying to figure it out.

Paul Spiegel 27:09

Yeah, trying to find new avenues that we can take and things that our clients can do.

Marc Bernstein 27:14

I love it. Paul Spiegel, thanks so much for being here today with me. Justin, thank you for joining us again.

Paul Spiegel 27:20

Thanks for having me. It was great. Good up, thank you.

Marc Bernstein 27:23

Thank you all for listening, and we'll see you next week on Founders Forum.

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