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Announcer 0:00

The following programming is sponsored by Marc J. Bernstein. The views expressed do not necessarily reflect the views of this station, its management, or Beasly Media Group. Entrepreneur, founder, author and financial advisor, Marc Bernstein helps high-performing business owners turn their visions into reality. At March Forward, Marc and his partners and associates think out of the box to partner with their clients in regards to their visions for their lives, their businesses and their legacies. And through his innovative work with the Forward Focus Forums, Marc connects entrepreneurs to resources that help to fuel their success. Founders’ Forum is a radio show and podcast where entrepreneurs share their journeys, revealing the stories behind their successes, and the lessons they’ve learned. Join Marc and his guests for a mix of inspiration, valuable insights, and a bit of fun! Now, let’s dive in...

Why Anxiety Shows Up For Founders

Marc Bernstein 0:53

Good morning, America. How are you this morning? We are here on a beautiful day in Philadelphia, and our guest today is Dr. Kryn McClain. I'll formally introduce her in a few minutes. And we have in the studio with us Devin McCrossin and Susan McCrossin, who we just recorded another show with. If you haven't heard it already, it's a great episode. Please listen to that. And uh it's great to have you here today, uh, Kryn, if I may call you that. And we are um so we always have a topic of the day, and the one I want to bring up today is anxiety and how that impacts you. And we we'll tell your background in a minute, but professionally and maybe even personally, and what effect and I bring this up because and I told you offline that it's something I realized, I never realized I mean everyone has some anxiety, I would imagine. But I I found out through an exercise when I was a member of EO, Entrepreneurs Organization, a few years ago, that I found something I didn't discover, which was constant anxiety that I didn't realize I had. And so now I'm very aware of it and I it helps me manage it better, and I don't see as much of it because probably because I'm aware of it. But you know, that so it was I have something going on right now in my per in my personal life that caused that. So it had me think about that as a topic that I thought would be appropriate for you. Sure.

Kryn McClain, DHA, LPC, MSEd 2:20

Yeah, great, let's dive into that because I a lot of people ask about that, believe it or not. And the first thing I always say, there's good anxiety, then there's bad anxiety. So there's that anxiety that makes sure that we get our tasks done, right? Like the anxiety of, oh my goodness, I need to pay my bills or I need to make sure I take care of something for work that that drives that internal motor to make sure we get what we need to done, or maybe there's a life event, even if it's positive, it can still be pretty anxiety producing, like getting married or having a baby, maybe a major life change. And then there's the uh anxiety that can be a bit more crippling, uh, quote unquote bad anxiety, where it it can be debilitating for people, where it overcomes us and we're not able to um continue with those daily functions.

Marc Bernstein 3:11

So you maybe just answer my next question, but I I was always aware of stress. And I always said the same thing because coaching people and managing people, there's good stress and there's bad stress.

Kryn McClain, DHA, LPC, MSEd 3:22

Right.

Marc Bernstein 3:22

But anxiety is a little different than stress, I think. How would you define the difference?

Kryn McClain, DHA, LPC, MSEd 3:26

Sure. So if we want to look into anxiety, of course, there's the clinical definition, which I didn't bring my DSM today, so we're not going to whip that out. But you know, a big thing with anxiety is we can look at the symptomology, we can look at how much it's impacting us by how long has it been going on, how severe are our symptoms, and how long do they last? So that's a way we can kind of gauge it. Because you're right, stress that's in the moment, it's fleeting, it's coming and going, it's not that intense, it's not that long in duration, it doesn't last that for a prolonged period of time. So that's really the measurement that we use if we want to simplify it down.

Marc Bernstein 4:02

Aaron Powell See, to me, anxiety can cause stress, or stress can cause anxiety, but there's the anxiety to me is deeper than stress. Is that fair?

Kryn McClain, DHA, LPC, MSEd 4:11

Right, because again, that's going to be longer duration, that's gonna be a deeper intensity, and that's also going to be happening more frequently.

Marc Bernstein 4:19

Right. Right. Makes sense. Any thoughts, Devin?

Devon McCrossin 4:23

I think anxiety is what gets me up in the morning and gets me to you know get my work done. So I have a positive experience of anxiety. Right. Nighttime anxiety, not good. Morning anxiety, great.

Kryn McClain, DHA, LPC, MSEd 4:34

And I think us women have a different nighttime anxiety because we're running through the grocery list and all the things that we need to do the next day. And oh my god, did I schedule that doctor's appointment and all these things that can run through our head? Um, so yeah, I think it's you and I probably can bond and and chat more about that. Yeah.

Maternity Leave Layoff Sparks A Startup

Marc Bernstein 4:52

So Dr. Kryn McClain is a trauma therapist by background and founder of Catapallo VR, where she combines uh clinical expertise with creativity to build immersive real-world training experiences. As a boy mom who loves traveling with her family and unwinding with a good book, she's passionate about solving meaningful problems, whether that's helping someone practice social skills or training teams in high-stakes environments. There's a lot in that because we'll talk about that. We'll deep dive into it. We're gonna deep dive into that. That's right. So we're I'm not gonna we you have a background, obviously. You have a uh undergraduate degree from Cuca College, graduate studies at St. Bonaventure, and your doctor at A.T. Stowe University. Um, you're from Western New York. But I really want to start with your entrepreneurial journey, which really began after taking maternity leave from a job. So let's talk about that and what happened.

Kryn McClain, DHA, LPC, MSEd 5:54

Sure, sure. So I had my first son about nine years ago, and I came back from maternity leave as one typically does to find out the company had restructured and decided to completely eliminate my position.

Marc Bernstein 6:07

Not very nice.

Kryn McClain, DHA, LPC, MSEd 6:08

Not not not crazy about that decision, but it it fueled me to was a blessing, right? Yeah, it did. It fueled me to just be done uh working for somebody else and starting a company that really focused on the employee experience.

Marc Bernstein 6:22

So you did that um and you founded your first company.

Kryn McClain, DHA, LPC, MSEd 6:25

That's right.

Marc Bernstein 6:25

And that was tell us about that.

Kryn McClain, DHA, LPC, MSEd 6:27

Sure. So that company was called Paragon Behavioral Health Services, and I founded it with a co-partner, Paulina Colonna, back in 2017. And we started that business and just really held firm to the belief that if we take care of our employees, then they'll provide a better mental health quality experience for the clients that we wanted to serve. So we just really held on to that one fundamental truth. And as we grew, that really cascaded down uh throughout the throughout the company.

Marc Bernstein 6:56

By the way, I forgot. I'm I I was so anxious to get in your story, I forgot to reintroduce Devin, Devin McCrossin, who's partner and owner of Boomtown Internet Group, has an MBA and an undergraduate degree from Penn State with certifications in Google Ads, Google Analytics, and Lean Six Sigma. And she's lived and worked across the U.S. and internationally, and currently is based in Phoenixville, Pennsylvania. So welcome again, Devin. Thank you for having me. She was on a previous show that we actually recorded today. So um, and so you'll chime in with questions as you have them for for Dr. Crin. So So you you really built that company and you grew to about 80 employees, I think. That's right. And you recently completed an exit. I did so let's talk about that, because that in itself was was a was a journey, I think, right?

Kryn McClain, DHA, LPC, MSEd 7:43

It it really was. And just coming to the mutual decision that we were ready to exit was big to talk about with a business partner.

Choosing An Exit That Protects People

Marc Bernstein 7:52

What had you decide that you were ready?

Kryn McClain, DHA, LPC, MSEd 7:54

Uh we both kind of looked at each other. We used to have this annual meeting where we'd go off-site every November to really think through what do we want for the business for the next year. So we would take a whole day, block it, and we just kind of looked at each other and and she was like, Don't be afraid to talk to me about selling the business if that's on your mind. Um and it was almost as if she read my mind, but we're both therapists, so we do that.

Marc Bernstein 8:14

Right, right, right.

Kryn McClain, DHA, LPC, MSEd 8:15

From time to time. And we just started talking about it, and we really knew we were getting to a point where if we wanted to continue to grow the business and hold true to that fundamental, we take care of our employees, we had to take on either an investor or take on an acquisition at this point.

Marc Bernstein 8:32

So it wasn't like you had suitors, but you went out and actually looked for them. That's correct. Right. That's correct. And how long a process was that from start to finish?

Kryn McClain, DHA, LPC, MSEd 8:40

I would say from start to finish, about two years, it took a long time.

Marc Bernstein 8:44

Aaron Powell It was difficult, right?

Kryn McClain, DHA, LPC, MSEd 8:46

It was because we had to go through and organize and uh and I don't want to say that we were disorganized, but to get together every single piece of information that your business has ever had is is quite the feat to accomplish and then present it in a way that makes people want to invest or purchase you is is a uh tricky not tricky, but it's a detailed uh process that you want to get right.

Marc Bernstein 9:10

And it was a full outright purchase, correct? It was a complete exit.

Kryn McClain, DHA, LPC, MSEd 9:14

It was a complete exit.

Marc Bernstein 9:15

How did you feel after the exit?

Kryn McClain, DHA, LPC, MSEd 9:17

It felt great. So it was like again, it was a two-year process, and people were like, Oh, you sold your baby. I'm like, no, I sold my kid who was ready to go to college.

Marc Bernstein 9:25

Right, right, right.

Kryn McClain, DHA, LPC, MSEd 9:25

This was not a baby anymore. This was way, it grew way beyond our wildest expectations, which we were so happy about. And the legacy is going to continue, and that's what we really cared about, and making sure that our people had the benefits and the pay and all the things that we wanted to give them in a way that we knew we couldn't, just as two uh people who bootstrapped the business at that point.

Marc Bernstein 9:48

So so speaking therapy therapist speak, my wife's a therapist. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, I think I forgot to tell you that. So family therapist. I call myself a fiscal therapist, so that's my you know, that's my thing, physical therapy. Right. So but in and and that kind of speak, you did you sold in a very healthy kind of way, in a very healthy environment. You had the right perspective and the right attitude about it. Thinking of it not as your baby but as a as a child ready to go to college. I love that. That's a that's a great way to look at it. Did you have you had any questions about the exit? Because I think you had before Devin.

Devon McCrossin 10:23

Uh yeah, I mean I think that's such a a hard conversation to have with your business partner, so it's glad that she was open to it.

Speaker 4 10:30

Yeah, absolutely.

Devon McCrossin 10:31

Um and the two-year planning and and the clean exit, like how much do you think about your old business and do you ever check in on them and see how they're doing?

Kryn McClain, DHA, LPC, MSEd 10:40

Oh yeah, I mean, I drive by it almost every day and it's just I I just feel a sense of pride that, like, hey, I started that and it's continuing without me. And that's you know, that that's really a a dream of a small business owners, is finding a legacy plan that knowing that something that you work so hard to create and to build and to stabilize is going to continue without you.

Speaker 2 11:02

Yeah.

Kryn McClain, DHA, LPC, MSEd 11:02

So yeah, I just stopped in the other day because I still had to get some of my stuff for my office, but it was great to see everybody and see how they were doing and you know, they were all there and happy and and plugging away.

Marc Bernstein 11:13

So you're an active entrepreneur. It's interesting because we talk a lot about legacy on the show, but you've you're already at a fairly young age getting to see your legacy in in action, which is pretty cool.

Kryn McClain, DHA, LPC, MSEd 11:23

It is great.

VR Safety Training Built For Real Work

Marc Bernstein 11:24

So so while still operating the first company, you then launched your second business, Catapallo VR, where you're the sole owner this time. And tell us what that company does.

Kryn McClain, DHA, LPC, MSEd 11:36

Sure. So at Catapallo, we're really focused on creating these immersive training experiences that drive behavior change. So we want to provide a uh ability for companies to uh get away from checking a box or a presentation so that we can uh really focus on the the actual outcome.

Marc Bernstein 11:59

Very good. So and this is so this is now a company, just to be clear that you're working for companies, you're working on safe concern can uh concerns of safety primarily and you're going into the companies and but it's still behaviourable behavioral teaching and management to a certain extent.

Kryn McClain, DHA, LPC, MSEd 12:18

Absolutely. We apply lots of different, you know, adult learning theories and story-based telling to really drive home that stickiness of the training because what we're all looking for are outcomes, right? And if we're just doing training to check a box, chances are you're not getting the outcome that you're looking for.

Marc Bernstein 12:36

Aaron Powell So I didn't fully when we first talked, I didn't fully get it, the VR experience. Maybe you can describe that because you described it really well earlier today for our audience, what that means. What what are what are employees looking at when they're going through this experience?

Kryn McClain, DHA, LPC, MSEd 12:49

Aaron Powell Oh, yeah, that's great because I think um another person in the studio had asked, you know, well, what does that actually mean? You know, really what we do differently instead of the click-through get it done as quick as you can training, we are putting people in a 360 environment that is their environment where they actually are part of the training. So we're not a passive learner anymore. We're active. So we have to go through, we have to be able to complete tasks and no, there's no fire that lights them up or anything like that, or um eats them alive if they don't complete a task, but they might have to redo some parts of it if they if they don't score high enough in certain scenes, because we want to provide a training that also verifies that they completed it in a satisfactory.

Marc Bernstein 13:35

And you so as an example, we talked about use as an example, we're in a radio station right now. This is a radio show. So you talked about it, you know, it might put you in the radio station sitting in the studio when a fire breaks out or something like that.

Kryn McClain, DHA, LPC, MSEd 13:49

Yeah, that's a really common one we do actually is you know, how do we make sure all 200 people know how to do a fire drill or when there's a new person who comes on, we can't shut down production so that we can do a drill because now we've messed up the batch, or you know, we've heard all kinds of things. So then that way we can have make sure everybody's prepared without stopping operations and getting people out safely.

Marc Bernstein 14:10

Very, very interesting.

Speaker 4 14:16

This building can be very confusing. It's a little bit of a rat maze, I'm not gonna lie.

Marc Bernstein 14:20

That is very true. There's no question about it. Um, tell us about I know over the years your leadership style in the business has evolved, and uh we we're not gonna go there now because we're gonna take a really quick break, but I want you to think about that, and we're gonna hear a little bit about your new company and a quick ad, and then we'll be right back on Founders Forum.

Announcer 14:40

A loose wire. A frayed harness. A spill on the floor. One wrong move could mean lost time, lost lives, or a citation that costs you everything. I'm Dr. Kryn McClain, founder of CatapalloVR. We're a women-owned company building custom virtual reality safety training. Mining, food processing, healthcare, manufacturing — anywhere your people work around real hazards. We don't replace your training. Your team practices real-world scenarios without the real-world risk — built for your environment, before they ever step on the floor. Custom modules start at five thousand dollars — less than what one workplace injury costs you. Visit CatapalloVR.com and request your industry-specific demo. We'll send it straight to your inbox. That's C-A-T-A-P-A-L-L-O-V-R-dot-com CatapalloVR — like a catapult, with VR at the end. Together we can do virtually anything.

Leadership Guardrails And Accountability Shifts

Marc Bernstein 15:43

We are back on Founders Forum with our guest today, Dr. Kryn McClain. And my co-host today, Devin McCrossin, also mentioned that her mom is in the studio because if you listen to that show, the two of them together were great. So Susan is here too, but she's been quiet. So a rarity for her. There you go. So we um we were just talking about your leadership approach, which and I think you used a similar approach at your former company, but it's uh it's evolved. So let's talk about what that what that involves.

Kryn McClain, DHA, LPC, MSEd 16:13

Aaron Powell Yeah, absolutely. Certainly I can reflect back and I I kind of see myself as in chapter one when I first started that new company and had to uh r really button up, you know, transparency was a big one, you know. Before it was like, oh yeah, everyone needs to know everything. It's like, nope, nope, not at that level.

Marc Bernstein 16:32

Well, and by the way, I just want to stop for a second because you were a therapist before that. Yeah, yeah. Right. So you came in. Now you're leading a company of a lot of people. That's a that's a fairly heavy transition. It is, it is.

Kryn McClain, DHA, LPC, MSEd 16:42

And I didn't have a whole lot of leadership experience, and I didn't have any great role models in my entire career journey until I joined Vistige a few years into uh my Paragon journey. So it's really uh evolved from chapter one to chapter 20, where you learn from coaching and other entrepreneurs to a large extent. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Marc Bernstein 17:04

Vistage is a great, great organization.

Kryn McClain, DHA, LPC, MSEd 17:06

It really is. And you know, I had a great Vistage coach who really helped me, uh, great HR coaches, and really thankful that I was able to assemble a team to help me become a much better leader to get the company so that it could be prepared for exit. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

Marc Bernstein 17:19

My personal experience, knowing a lot of therapists, kind of grown up around them in a way. Um not everybody's open that way. There's a sort of a built-in thing, you have a lot of knowledge already and all. So you had a lot of openness, so a lot of respect to you for being able to do that.

Kryn McClain, DHA, LPC, MSEd 17:33

Aaron Ross Powell Sure, sure. And we had you know great communication skills, and that was never really an issue. It was what we're going to communicate.

Marc Bernstein 17:40

Which is a a major shift, I think.

Kryn McClain, DHA, LPC, MSEd 17:42

Aaron Powell It it is, because we have to put guardrails in place, just like we have guardrails in place for what we will and will not say to a client. I had to transfer that skill into leadership as well.

Marc Bernstein 17:52

Right. Probably as a therapist, you know, accountability was something you were familiar with. But you know, having more structure, that's probably not something you were as familiar with as an example, right?

Kryn McClain, DHA, LPC, MSEd 18:03

Sure. And structure, but also how to appropriately hold people accountable who aren't your clients, right? Right, that's right.

Marc Bernstein 18:11

Different relationships.

Kryn McClain, DHA, LPC, MSEd 18:12

Different relationship. And the accountability had to matter. It wasn't like a client where it's like, yeah, if you don't do it, it doesn't really affect my life. That's your choice. You know, don't dump your boyfriend. I don't really care. But when it came to running a business, I do care.

Marc Bernstein 18:25

Right, right, right.

Kryn McClain, DHA, LPC, MSEd 18:26

This does affect me. So these are things that we do need to button up in a way that's going to be consistent with what we need.

Marc Bernstein 18:32

Aaron Ross Powell By the way, you ever watch the sh TV show on Apple that um shrink, shrinking, or shrink, shrinking?

Kryn McClain, DHA, LPC, MSEd 18:38

I I don't watch a lot of quote unquote shrink shows. I I don't really like how Hollywood portrays a therapist by large. There's a few shows I will say they've got it right.

Marc Bernstein 18:47

You would definitely not like this one. But it's but it's very in terms of how they portray therapists, but it's funny. It's a very funny show. I use it for comic relief. I forgot that. But anyway. Um I know you used elements of um EOS, entrepreneurs, which is for those many of you will know who are listening because you're entrepreneurs, but entrepreneurial operating system. Um for the new company, you've used that for your operating guidelines to a certain extent.

Speaker 2 19:10

Right.

Marc Bernstein 19:11

And how many how many um you you don't really have employees, you have contractors today. It's pretty this one's a relatively small company compared to the other one, right?

Kryn McClain, DHA, LPC, MSEd 19:19

Oh, absolutely. We're we're trying to keep it small because we can do a lot without having to hire 80 people. So that that's kind of the beauty. It's the inverse of the other company. We are a service-based company, we needed people to provide the service in order to generate their revenue. But now we need people who are going to produce either VR modules or help us with marketing or sales and things of that nature. So we have about seven or eight in-house people who do a combination of one of those things I just mentioned.

Marc Bernstein 19:46

So we when we talked about your other company, we've we've intuitively talked about some of the challenges you've had because you had some ways you had to grow and way you had to approach leadership, things like that. But what kind of challenges are you having with this company?

Kryn McClain, DHA, LPC, MSEd 20:00

Sure. So it's really figuring out a new company structure. So, you know, growing Paragon, it was right in my wheelhouse. I could see very clearly how to grow it because I had already worked in that industry for my entire career. Whereas this company I haven't, I've never been in tech or things like that. So it's figuring out from the ground up how to build this company in a responsible way, in a structured way, so that it can scale responsibly.

Marc Bernstein 20:22

You really are what seems like a fearless entrepreneur because you've gone into things twice that you didn't really know anything about.

Kryn McClain, DHA, LPC, MSEd 20:29

Yeah. Sometimes it's that's the way you gotta go. Ignorance can be bliss because if I would have known about it, I might not have done it.

Marc Bernstein 20:35

So hold your nose and jump in. Yeah, exactly. Right. Devin, you probably have another question or two at this point, I

Parenting Priorities And Glass Balls

Marc Bernstein 20:42

would think.

Devon McCrossin 20:42

Aaron Powell Yeah. I mean, I want to go back to your um original um start for Paragon when you said you were came off maternity leave, like balancing being a new mom with growing a business is something that's like closer to what I'm dealing with now. So I'd love to hear from you. Like we don't have kids yet. My husband's a business owner. I'd love to hear a bit about like how you balance that.

Kryn McClain, DHA, LPC, MSEd 21:05

Yeah, sure. So it it was more of a juggling act than a balance act. And I had to be really mindful which balls I was juggling were glass and which were rubber. So if you think about it like that, what would break if I dropped it versus what would bounce back? So I had to be mindful of that, you know, spending time with my son, even now, you know, I'm like, guys, I gotta leave after this. I have to go pick him up and I'd love to go to lunch with you, but that's a glass ball I can't drop. So it's it's something that I've carried with me throughout my journey to make sure I'm not losing sight of what's actually important in my life.

Marc Bernstein 21:39

Wow, what a great visualization and lesson. You carry that one with you. Which wish I'd heard about it.

Devon McCrossin 21:45

I will for sure carry carry that one with me. I think all of my balls are glass, and I think I need to uh realize more of them are rubber.

Kryn McClain, DHA, LPC, MSEd 21:53

Exactly, because we realize that. I was like, Well, if that drops, like I'm I'm not curing cancer here, and that email can. Wait till tomorrow. Yeah.

Marc Bernstein 22:03

I think all the balls are glass. I think that provokes anxiety. Right. Just saying. Yeah. So well, fortunately, I said I said I I'm married to a therapist, so I I I did have some awareness of it was pointed out to me at times which ones.

Kryn McClain, DHA, LPC, MSEd 22:16

When you told her you think you have anxiety, did she laugh and say, My God, finally you figured it out? Pretty much.

Marc Bernstein 22:21

That was the way that went down, right? She said, Oh, really? I had no idea. Kind of funny. But um, of course, she has her, you know, therapists are they're therapists for a reason, you know. So everyone has their own stuff, you know. So but so I've become part-time therapist, and she would say that as well. You know, that's part of marriage, right? So you all have to contribute. Um, so um I know other challenges you've mentioned to me at one point, uh, you know, for this company, market awareness and visibility or something you had to develop.

Clear Messaging And A Three Year Vision

Marc Bernstein 22:56

How's that going?

Kryn McClain, DHA, LPC, MSEd 22:57

Yeah, it's going great, actually. And I I just sat down the past couple of weeks and really took a deep look at the company and how am I going to formulate a package with all the products that we have. So really making a clear umbrella and the the language solid around that, you know, we're a behavior company first focused on those changes and outcomes through the vehicle of whether it's VR, whether it's explainer videos, uh, whatever it is, you know, but the the core message stays the same in that we want to help drive behavior changes within companies and organizations.

Marc Bernstein 23:31

Cran, when we first talked, we discussed your one-year, three-year, and ten-year business plans. And um, but you've chosen to talk about as many do, I think the most manageable one maybe, which is your three-year plan. Um tell us if, you know, if this were 2029 and you and I are talking again and I say, How'd it go? And you come back and say, you know, like tell me what that would l have to look like for you to say that was a great three-year bus uh three-year period in your business and or your life, if you'd like to. Sure, sure.

Kryn McClain, DHA, LPC, MSEd 24:01

So yeah, it's always evolving. Um, you know, as I'd mentioned, I've I've littles at home. So in three years from now, I'll have a kindergartner and a middle schooler. So that will be exciting and it's all its own ways. But um, as far as the business, um, you know, we've even just looking back at a year, we've forexed our revenue by just really sitting down and really getting serious about how we're going to grow and scale the company. So I'd like to say we we continue on that trajectory and and really start to penetrate the market in in our community in Southeast Penn Pennsylvania, but also a bit nationwide.

Marc Bernstein 24:37

Um I I would like to follow up on Devin's question. I know you're married, you have a wife, and you have two boys, right? Right, right. Um and um and your what what does your wife do?

Kryn McClain, DHA, LPC, MSEd 24:47

Uh she is an OBGYN.

Marc Bernstein 24:50

And a medical director, I believe, right? That's right.

Kryn McClain, DHA, LPC, MSEd 24:52

Yeah, she just got that promotion. Oop.

Marc Bernstein 24:54

Uh I help you out there. Thanks. Thanks for that. So um and what what kind of personal growth is it taking as a as a you know as a partner in a family? Um you know, as you're evolving your business as an entrepreneur, are there things well you talked about that a little bit, balancing the balls, but is there anything else, any observations you have about your growth in that area?

Kryn McClain, DHA, LPC, MSEd 25:18

Aaron Ross Powell Yeah, and it it's certainly including her on a lot of decisions and discussions, even though obviously she's not in the business, but that doesn't mean to throw up a wall and not provide that transparency there too, so she knows where I'm at, how I'm growing and what I'm doing, and including your spouse, I think is just so helpful as entrepreneurs because I think sometimes we get these blinders on, we get laser focused on the business, but then it can be all consuming. It can become almost, you know, addiction to be like, oh my God, I gotta be up and thinking about this, and you know, you're up and you're working, but you you gotta make that time to spend.

Marc Bernstein 25:54

That communication and and um learning, I assume, is a um communication and and sharing is a learned experience, I would think, right? It is. It is. Right.

Kryn McClain, DHA, LPC, MSEd 26:05

So I've gotten in trouble a few times, so even as therapists don't get it right.

Marc Bernstein 26:10

Haven't we all? Yeah. No, I I

Books Nerd Out And Final Thanks

Marc Bernstein 26:12

get that. Um tell you're a reader, I know. Yes. What are you currently reading?

Kryn McClain, DHA, LPC, MSEd 26:16

Right now, I oh god, I think I'm reading three books right now. I shouldn't have had you asked me this, but I'm reading The Royal Assassin, which is the second book in the Farseer trilogies, and I see we got some nods in the studio, so that's that's awesome. Um we're we're right up into battle as I was rolling in here. So that's my audio book right now. And then I'm reading, oh God, what is it called? Air Awakens, that's on my Kindle Unlimited, and then I've got an actual book that I'm reading. It's um George Falls Through Time. So a couple really light-hearted um sci-fi fantasy mix, and then I've got my heavy, deep concentration of you know, all the things that are going on inside the Royal Assassin.

Marc Bernstein 26:55

This is all up Devon's alley, right? She's tell her about your book club really quick.

Devon McCrossin 26:59

We're doing the classic books, the ones that inspired like early sci-fi and discussions around them, a lot of dystopian. Um but it's been very fun. Uh and I don't know if we're enjoying it, but we enjoy the conversation. Oh, that's good. Yes. What books are you reading? Um this last one we read was um the electric sheep. Do androids do androids like electric sleep. Yeah, something like that. Androids like electric sleep. That sounds fascinating. So it was uh what inspired Blade Runner. Oh, okay.

Marc Bernstein 27:31

Re really funny on the show how we uh we book two shows a week, and almost always there's unexpected synergies and that that that happened on this one again. So so and good escapism.

Speaker 4 27:43

It really is.

unknown 27:44

Yeah.

Marc Bernstein 27:44

Kryn, thank you so much for being here. Dr. Kryn McClain, thank you, Devon McCrossin and Susan McCrossin for being here again. And thank you, TJ, for engineering. And thank you all for listening today on Founders Forum. Hope you have a wonderful day. I hope this is part of your uh learning and growth experiencing listening to the show. And we look forward to seeing you again next week on Founders Forum.

Marc Bernstein 28:05

 Founders Founders’ Forum was brought to you in part, by March Forward, LLC. We partner with entrepreneurs like you to assist in accomplishing your future vision. Your life. Your business. Your legacy. Comprehensive wealth planning that starts with you -- not a product. We hope you enjoyed your time with Founders’ Forum and that you found something of value to take with you throughout your day. Join us again next week for another episode of Founders’ Forum on WWDB 860 AM Philadelphia, or on your favorite podcast streaming service. Securities offered through DFPG Investments, LLC (“DFPG”) Investment Advisory Services offered through Diversify Advisory Services, LLC (“Diversify”). DAS and DFPG are affiliated entities. March is unaffiliated with DAS and DFPG. Member FINRA/SIPC The information provided in this podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and should not be interpreted as investment advice. The views expressed are those of the host and guests and do not necessarily reflect the views of Diversify or DFPG.

Marc Bernstein 28:05