Welcome To Founders Forum

Announcer 0:00

The following programming is sponsored by Marc J. Bernstein. The views expressed do not necessarily reflect the views of this station, its management, or Beasly Media Group. Entrepreneur, founder, author and financial advisor, Marc Bernstein helps high-performing business owners turn their visions into reality. At March Forward, Marc and his partners and associates think out of the box to partner with their clients in regards to their visions for their lives, their businesses and their legacies. And through his innovative work with the Forward Focus Forums, Marc connects entrepreneurs to resources that help to fuel their success. Founders’ Forum is a radio show and podcast where entrepreneurs share their journeys, revealing the stories behind their successes, and the lessons they’ve learned. Join Marc and his guests for a mix of inspiration, valuable insights, and a bit of fun! Now, let’s dive in...

Marc Bernstein 0:52

Yeah, inspiration, perspiration. We got it all going in here in the studio. Good morning, America. How are you? My guest today is Hilary. I'll formally introduce her in a minute. But good morning, Hilary. Thanks for being here.

Hilary Jay 1:05

Good morning, Marc. I'm so happy to be here.

Marc Bernstein 1:07

That's great. Great to have you here.

Using AI As A Creative Tool

Marc Bernstein 1:09

So you guess what we're going to talk about? We're going to talk about AI. Why? Because nobody else is talking about it. That's all anybody's talking about these days. But I have a, and we've talked a lot about it on the show in regard to business uses and what people are doing with the businesses and things like that. But I want to ask you, how is AI affecting you in your life? It could be your business personally or whatever. But what where does it come into play with you?

Hilary Jay 1:34

Aaron Ross Powell I think it's fascinating the many ways that I've been able to personally use it and then the responses that my clients have had toward it as well. As far as my personal use as an author, I've been able to use it to help me with research. I don't have it write original content for me, but it can very much fast track what I need to say. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

Marc Bernstein 1:59

And the research, of course, you have to confirm somehow. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

Hilary Jay 2:02

Absolutely. Trevor Burrus, Jr.: That all has to be, you know, I actually do have to go to the library and figure out whether those primary papers do have that actual information. Trevor Burrus, Jr.: It isolates things for me. But funny, just yesterday I was doing a art installation plan for a client who lives in a wonderful, beautiful house down in Philadelphia.

Marc Bernstein 2:30

Trevor Burrus That's a little outside the scope of your business, I think, right?

Hilary Jay 2:33

No. Not really. Okay. It's totally in the scope of my business. So yeah, no, I do a lot of um art installation and curation for people.

Marc Bernstein 2:41

Upon Okay, upon moves. Yeah, yeah.

Hilary Jay 2:44

So here I am doing this art installation plan, and she wants to physically see how I'm going to lay out uh 40 pieces of artwork on four floors this Friday. And um so I thought, okay, well, I'm gonna try to put everything into AI, all the room photographs, all the art photographs, and have it lay it out. And I did that, and what came back was very professional looking. However, the curation was so not right. The the juxtaposition of de of different pieces of artwork were totally off. Um the just the choices that AI was making for me.

Marc Bernstein 3:23

The human element being missing, right?

Hilary Jay 3:24

Trevor Burrus, Jr. Absolutely missing, plus that whole judgment about really how one piece of artwork talks to another and um what makes sense as far as history of work and and all this kind of stuff. So curation is still very much a human high-touch.

Meet Hilary J And Her Work

Marc Bernstein 3:40

Right. Got it. So Hilary J. is our guest today, and she's a founder, owner, and creative director. She's also an award-winning journalist, designer, and arts advocate. So, some of her business history, which is very interesting, she co-founded Maximal Art, an international costume jewelry and watch company, where she was chief designer alongside John Wind. Her accessories can be found in the permanent collections of London's Victoria and Albert Museum, Paris Musee, did I say des arts?

Hilary Jay 4:11

Les Arts des Creatives and Paris.

Marc Bernstein 4:16

Something like that. I need my daughter, who's still in French, and the Philadelphia Museum of Art. Hilary's writing has appeared in every major shelter publication, including Metropolitan Home, ID magazine, gallery, and arts and antiques. In addition, and this is how I knew her name, she wrote a weekly column on interiors, architecture, design, and gardens for the Philadelphia Inquirer, Sunday magazine. She's also an author of a book, which is left out, but I think it's important to tell. Recently she did a book called Woodmere. If you're from Philadelphia, you know about the Woodmere Museum, and it says Telling the Story of Philadelphia's art and artists. She was chief curator of the Paley Design Center at Philadelphia University, which is now Jefferson University, which used to be the call of the Philadelphia College of Textiles and Sciences a long time ago. That's right. Where she mounted exhibitions exploring the intersection of design, art, and culture. She co-founded Design Philadelphia, the first American design festival, which became the business model for others across the United States. Yet another thing that was created in Philadelphia, right, right by a Philadelphian. Hilary has taught professional practices and design business courses at the college level and led international design conferences and workshops. She launched Department of Better LLC, which is her current company, in 2020 to advise private clients, estates, and institutions on the care, curation, and transition of significant collections and offer and offers design expertise regarding products and spaces.

Hilary Jay 5:49

That's a lot, right? It's a lot. That's a lot. You live long enough. You're a lot in a good way. I've heard that.

Marc Bernstein 5:57

I'm sure. So have I, by the way. So I get it. So have I. That's why that's why I can say that. Okay. So let's start at the beginning. How did so you obviously you're attracted to the arts, to writing.

Hilary Jay 6:08

It's all about design for me. It's all about design and art. And I I mean I grew up with that in my family. My parents were both designers.

Marc Bernstein 6:16

And so And were they entrepreneurs as well?

Hilary Jay 6:19

Yes, they were both business owners. And I so I wasn't going to get far from that tree at all. I mean, I even tried to take over my father's business at one point, but that was in Baltimore, and I thought I need to not be in Baltimore. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

Marc Bernstein 6:33

What what do you have siblings, by the way?

Hilary Jay 6:34

Trevor Burrus, I have a sister who's uh lives in Florida and does very much the same business I do now. So she's the one who hooked me into this. Trevor Burrus, Jr. So it was definitely in your blood on the way or end. Yeah, you can't get far. Especially, I mean I grew up going to art museums. My parents went to the city. Where is she in Florida? Oh, we talked about this in Vero Beach. Vero Beach, that's right, right, right. Yeah, yeah.

Marc Bernstein 6:58

Yes.

Hilary Jay 6:59

So and so my mother was an interior designer, and um and yeah, and then the the thing about shelter magazines, which might be a funny word for people, it's really home and design magazines. Um that was another thing that was very much part of my growing up. We were in them all the time. Okay.

Marc Bernstein 7:16

So um your home be because of your home? Yes, because our home which must have been magnificent.

Hilary Jay 7:22

It was pretty.

Marc Bernstein 7:23

Yeah, where was it?

Hilary Jay 7:24

It was in Baltimore, outside of Baltimore, and um it was uh the house was based on a California case study house, so it was one of these mid-century contemporary houses, wood and stone, and just really pretty and glass, a lot of glass. Right. Um, on a lot of land. And so um it was a very um, listen, very privileged. I'm very clear about that. Um it just gave me a very specific kind of perspective on m uh on objects, on things, on artwork, and the value of both the artist, uh, the designer, and the stuff.

Marc Bernstein 7:58

And you went to school for design?

Hilary Jay 7:59

I started in an art school and I ended up majoring in sociology from University of Pennsylvania because I found that writing is really uh my my best mode of communication. Um and I'm a little bit I bring a little bit of an academic bent to the work I do. Aaron Ross Powell Right.

Marc Bernstein 8:19

Yeah. You can tell from the book, which is beautiful, by the way. If you have an interest in art, check out this book, Woodmeere.

Hilary Jay 8:24

Get it at Woodmere Art Museum.

Marc Bernstein 8:26

Yep. That's perfect. Perfect place to get it. Yeah. Probably buy it online too, right?

Hilary Jay 8:30

At Woodmere, yeah. Woodmere.

Marc Bernstein 8:32

Got it, got it. Um so how did you so you so you you were you were a student in sociology. What was your path to get becoming an entrepreneur? So I graduated.

Hilary Jay 8:43

I mean it's a

Building A Jewelry Business Fast

Hilary Jay 8:44

great question. I gra- what do you do with sociology degree? I graduated in sociology, and the next day, literally the next day, I thought to myself, oh my God, now what? And so um um there were a few twists and turns there, but I had met um a wonderful fellow in in college, John Wyn, and um long story short, he and I became business partners um and both designers of um high-end costume jewelry. It was really art to wear. It was the 80s, it was a very different So that business was pretty early on time. It was early on. So at 26 years old, I had 26 employees and it was a multimillion dollar business, and we were doing it in Philadelphia. And so um yeah, it was trial by fire, but I I found out early that I I'm good at um I'm good at production and I'm good at marketing. Um I'm not the operations person, and so fortunately I've found people um, you know, along the way. Uh Robin Cook, I'd give a shout-out to her for being an amazing president of our company.

Marc Bernstein 9:52

Aaron Powell By the way, you're lucky because I talked to a lot of entrepreneurs, and I talk about this on the show. I'm I'm a graduate of the strategic coach program, which talks about focusing on your unique abilities and delegating the rest. Yeah. You know, that's one of the things. But you were fortunate to learn that at a young age. It's it took me a long time to learn it. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

Hilary Jay 10:10

It's been trial. It hasn't. And I mean, I'm still getting comfortable with what do you mean I can't do that? No, I just can't. Right, right.

Marc Bernstein 10:18

Right. That was our other possible top topic of the day, saying no, which we've That's a good one, too. You've you've learned you've learned to do that. So so that business was going really well.

Hilary Jay 10:29

That business was going great, but there were all sorts of funny things that happened, like we had a radiation uh emergency where we were producing watches and working with antique watches. And the watches, turned out some of them had radium that had been painted on the dials. Wow. And so we had to do a big recall of product. And that was about challenges.

Marc Bernstein 10:49

That's it.

Hilary Jay 10:49

Uh it was out of Neiman Marcus, it was out of SACS. And we took a big financial hit. And eventually we had to um basically reimagine how the business was set up, and I opted to move on.

Marc Bernstein 11:04

So how many years were you in that?

Hilary Jay 11:06

I was only there for five years.

Marc Bernstein 11:08

Gotcha.

Hilary Jay 11:08

Um so it wasn't that long. Five is sort of my sweet spot.

Marc Bernstein 11:11

Okay. Gotcha.

Hilary Jay 11:13

You moved around a bit.

Marc Bernstein 11:14

So what happened? Where'd you go after that?

Hilary Jay 11:16

So after that, um I ended up becoming a writer. And uh the the other funny thing about my life, and unlike you, it sounds like, um, I have had no training in anything I've ever done. So um I just thought, okay, well, maybe I can write for magazines. And I got a great position with now defunct Metropolitan Home magazine, which was out in New York, and they needed city editors, so I became a city editor in Philadelphia. And you meet everybody doing that. Everybody who's got a beautiful home, who loves their things, who are makers. Um, so I met a ton of people, and that led to uh my job at the Inquirer writing a weekly column for a number of years in the magazine. Um, and it also led to my writing for pretty much every other home and design magazine in the country. And I did that for a number of years until, you know, technology kind of put that into the yeah. Yeah, I was making an actual living.

Marc Bernstein 12:14

Well, I know I know your name was around a lot back then. I I know that.

Hilary Jay 12:17

So you know, uh we all know that just because your name's out there doesn't mean you're making a living.

Marc Bernstein 12:22

But um but didn't you write for Did you write for Philadelphia magazines?

Hilary Jay 12:25

I re that was the first. I had a uh a column called Home Word, the last word on home.

Marc Bernstein 12:31

I I remember not that you say that, I remember that. Yeah.

Hilary Jay 12:34

Yeah.

Marc Bernstein 12:34

So interesting. So by the way, you said unlike me.

Hilary Jay 12:37

Yeah.

Marc Bernstein 12:37

Uh mu my training's music, composition, and theory and law.

Hilary Jay 12:41

There you go.

Marc Bernstein 12:42

No finance in there anywhere. So so kind of self-taught, you know, obviously mentors and w learned a lot along the way, took a lot of courses.

Hilary Jay 12:50

I think there's a lot in that.

Marc Bernstein 12:52

There's a lot in that. But it but it started out without any training.

Hilary Jay 12:54

I mean, I think following your passion you know, that's there's books written on that is important. And finding people who can mentor you along the way is also amazing.

Marc Bernstein 13:03

Aaron Powell Well, we won't get into my story, but it wasn't a passion at first. It was a way to accommodate what I thought I'd be good at and w a way to give back, I thought. Which which I felt more so than in the law to really actually help people. That's so interesting. But over time, when I saw how the business was done and what I wanted to change about that, that's when it became a passion.

Hilary Jay 13:24

Well, I love that you just said that because there's something really interesting about what I'm doing now, which really leads us to that, which is it's much more of an individual um endeavor than any of my past endeavors, which were much bigger.

Stewarding Collections Through Downsizing

Marc Bernstein 13:38

And this is a this is a passion of yours.

Hilary Jay 13:40

This is not necessarily a passion, but this is a recognition of a give back that older gen generally older people need this sort of um advising and stewardship of both themselves and their very dear belongings.

Marc Bernstein 13:57

Um describe what you do. We have a minute before the break. So let's just describe what you do and then we'll come back and talk a lot about that.

Hilary Jay 14:03

Okay, great. So um I I work in the downsizing um arena um, but I'm not sort of a broad downsizer or organizer. Um my clients tend to be those who have um interesting collections, things that artwork, belongings, antiquities, antiques, and they are sometimes forced to move, or sometimes they just need to let go of some of the things. And so I help them steward those things forward. I find the best next home, and that might be through auction houses where I negotiate contracts, or it might be with galleries. I have a really broad network. I've worked with a lot of different um places like that. But the the first and foremost thing that I notice about all my clients is that they they care about sustainability. So getting that uh into the work is really what's the most important, making sure that their things are taken care of properly.

Marc Bernstein 15:04

Perfect and perfect timing. We'll be right back after this break.

Announcer 15:09

More than thirty years ago, Two Dudes Painting was founded in Lancaster, PA, by two college students with a simple mission: to deliver an amazing experience with every paint job.

Announcer 15:22

Announcer 15:22

From those early beginnings, we've grown into a trusted team of professionals. However, our original promise remains the core of our business: Quality work, on time, with zero hassle.

Announcer 15:35

Announcer 15:35

Today, Two Dudes Painting is known not just for painting excellence and providing quality service for over three decades, but also for our strong commitment to our team and community—a commitment symbolized by the iconic VW bus we still drive. Our success is a direct reflection of the dedicated people we hire and the strong relationships we build.

Announcer 16:00

Announcer 16:00

We don't just paint; we raise the bar across the industry.

Announcer 16:04

Announcer 16:04

Ready to transform your home or business? Contact us today for a free, no-obligation estimate and experience the difference with your Dudes for Life. Find us online at twodudespainting.com or call us at 717-396-1207.

Why People Feel Overwhelmed By Stuff

Marc Bernstein 16:25

We're back on Founders Forum with our guest today, Hilary J. So we share a second name together because that's my middle name, Jay. There you go. J-A-Y. There you go. Anyway, so an easy one. Um so we're talking about what you do, what you're doing with uh Department of Better, which is a gr which is such a great name.

Hilary Jay 16:42

Thank you. The thing I wanted to mention was the other day I was invited to be uh part of um a realtor's talk at a retirement community for people who are interested in selling their homes. And yeah, it does make sense. And it turns out 11 million people, plus or minus, are going to be selling their homes or or exiting their homes in the next 10 years.

Marc Bernstein 17:05

I shared with you, we just went through it. We just did it. So that that's everyone I know is doing it now.

Hilary Jay 17:09

It translates to like a trillion dollars literally in valuables. Each person, the the realtor went around the room to start and she said, Can you tell me the question you've brought in, because I'm sure you've brought in a question to the person. The first question out of their mouths, what do I do with my stuff? I'm overwhelmed with my stuff. So this whole idea of we all have too much, I definitely am guilty. I'm a I live a maximum.

Marc Bernstein 17:39

I can reinforce that concept as well. We went through and everyone we talked to is going through. Everybody says I have too much stuff.

Hilary Jay 17:46

Right. And you don't want to just junk it.

Marc Bernstein 17:49

Right.

Hilary Jay 17:50

You and you and you invested in it. So how do you get the value out? But it's it's more than that. It's this anxiety, it's this emotional connection that we feel, whether it's whether it's a you know, a a glass that has really no value at all, but you drank out of it when your husband brought it to you or your partner, I don't know, whatever the story is. There's always a story. And um I just I I I feel compelled to help people through that journey.

Marc Bernstein 18:22

By the way, you you alluded to it earlier, but it's not just what do you do with your stuff, it's the stuff that you really want you want to keep, and now you're going into a new space as a designer, you know. So we brought a lot of artwork with us.

Hilary Jay 18:34

Right.

Marc Bernstein 18:34

And most of it is still in storage trying to figure out what to do with it. Well, but it's not it's I don't think it's your kind of your level.

Hilary Jay 18:44

Well, I can hang it for you.

Marc Bernstein 18:46

Well, we have we we found we have a well-known photographer who does kind of is ph photography with some painting, with some alteration, interesting stuff. We found two places for those were two favorite things we had in our other house. That we did, but we have lots of other stuff we haven't figured out. So maybe I should have you over with it.

Hilary Jay 19:06

Well, you know what, I mean, you you're saying it's not my level. I work with people's things that they love their things, and um installing them properly so that they can continue to enjoy them and designing the spaces so they can continue to enjoy it is my primary uh you know idea. Um but to your point about finding a place if you don't have where it can go, I'm working with one particular piece of artwork right now where the man had a one-person show at the Philadelphia Museum of Art years ago. He's now passed away. This collector has this piece. It is monumental, it is over six feet by six feet. And um and the auction market for it has pretty much flattened. So I was concerned about the artist's legacy as well as my client getting the right amount of of juice out of it, for lack of a better word. So I've been reaching out to museums to see if they are interested in taking the piece into the collection, one of their collections. But that's a whole nother journey for you know artworks. But there are so many places there are you know, synagogues and churches who will want things. There are individuals, you know, there's there's a lot of options for what to do with stuff.

Legacy Decisions And Letting Go

Marc Bernstein 20:19

That's a great idea. So t so tell what's the experience like of working with people that have a lot of emotions tied up in their things and what you what's that like for you?

Hilary Jay 20:28

Heartbreaking.

Marc Bernstein 20:30

Is it?

Hilary Jay 20:30

It really is.

Marc Bernstein 20:31

Well, there's some I would imagine there's some joy in it as well.

Hilary Jay 20:34

There there is. I mean there's joy when we get when we get through to the other side because it really is hard work. It is. And um uh you know, some people feel that they can do it themselves and uh and that's wonderful, or they have family members who can help them do it. It is such an emotional journey that um I mean I have I have clients say to me, You saved my life. Now you know that I didn't save their life, but I did get them It might felt that way to them.

Marc Bernstein 21:01

It did.

Hilary Jay 21:02

It did. And um and it and we t and we we do it together. I really actually care. Um I care that the outcome is good for for everyone, emotionally as well as financially. And it's not an inexpensive process.

Marc Bernstein 21:16

You said this is not a passion, so maybe we wouldn't call it a passion, but it is a it's a calling.

Hilary Jay 21:21

It's a calling, that's I think it's a calling.

Marc Bernstein 21:24

Yeah.

Hilary Jay 21:25

Not a particularly religious person, but spiritually, I think I think that's that.

Marc Bernstein 21:29

Got it.

Hilary Jay 21:31

If if it were a passion, I think I'd be just writing more books.

Marc Bernstein 21:34

So what kind of what kind of challenges have you experienced in this in this um business?

Hilary Jay 21:39

Oh, there are a lot of them. Um, you know, sometimes the things we love just can't find new homes. Um and so we end up donating those, but at least they get donated. Um Yeah. Um I don't know what else. It i it's it's sometimes harder when when people are much older and we have To move them into retirement facilities and they don't really want to go there. They've been very active. They've been they've been world citizens. And um to to come to the end of your life and to look back and reflect on your legacy and to begin to understand what the meaning of your life has been and what you have um perhaps come to. It's a it's a big reflecting point.

Marc Bernstein 22:27

Listen, I can connect. I mean, we're not at that stage, but we just moved downsize the home to a you know first floor primary bedroom kind of situation that my wife needed and left our home of twenty-six years where we raised our kids and you know, and it's there's and it's around the corner, so we see it all the time, which in some ways makes it easier, some ways it makes it harder. Yeah. But it's it is um it is, it's an emotional journey.

Hilary Jay 22:53

I was with um a client can't imagine the next one, you know. Oh well, right. I mean when you get to, you know, 700 square feet or less, uh it's yeah from a 2,700 square foot house or a 4,000 square foot house. But I was with a client the other day who, you know, we've successfully moved with her, and I and I I just went to visit and see how she was doing. And she was talking to me about her books. And I joke that if I don't walk in and see a thousand books, it's not my client. Right. But okay, so we're talking about the books, and she was saying, I I just didn't understand when I reached out to my children and they didn't want any of my books, my books that my husband and I had looked at together and read together and made notes together and talked about together. And I I just said to her, Carol, it's that was your life. This they need to make a new life.

Marc Bernstein 23:41

I went through that. Listen, I have I have music collections, I have records, I have CD. Kids took maybe a few records and all that, but the rest of it is all you know, and books and artwork and all that stuff. I know all of it's going at some point, or a lot of it's going at some point.

Hilary Jay 23:58

And every client says, My kids don't want it, it's brown furniture, nobody wants it.

Marc Bernstein 24:05

But you know what I've done? I've taken pictures of the things I value. I have photos.

Hilary Jay 24:09

That's really a great idea.

Marc Bernstein 24:10

You know what I mean? That's that's how I hand it.

Hilary Jay 24:12

That's a great idea.

Marc Bernstein 24:12

So if it's artwork, I can still look at the artwork whenever I want. You know, it's not it's it's not like it's not, of course, it's not like having the painting, but it's it's like having in the painting, you know. So yeah.

Hilary Jay 24:23

And you could always, if you're creative, make uh a new art piece from the collage of all of those things or whatever.

Marc Bernstein 24:30

But you can use that with it.

Hilary Jay 24:32

I like that.

Scaling A High Touch Business

Marc Bernstein 24:33

We only have two minutes. Hilary, if I were asking you, this is now October of 2026. I don't know when people will be listening to this, but if this was October of 2029 and you're looking back at the last three years, what would have to happen for you to feel like that was a successful progression in your life, that three year period?

Hilary Jay 24:51

Oh, sure. Throw me the worst one in the last two minutes. Okay, fine.

Marc Bernstein 24:56

You're not alone, I do that to everyone.

Hilary Jay 24:58

I wish I was that great of a forecaster. Um but uh you know, as a business person, you do try to have some kind of roadmap. And um I've recently, because I understand what my limitations as a um entrepreneur are, I've um just started to work with a um a past CFO, it turns out, of Wood Mirror Museum. And um working on trying to understand how to really put systems into place so that I can grow the business into something that would help more people and ultimately would be sellable. I mean, I have found uh by accident that I have managed to sell uh two, actually three businesses over the years. Not that I've gotten rich on any of it, but I've been able to at least sell it in order to propel the next idea. And that's that's valuable.

Marc Bernstein 25:56

Trevor Burrus You would have to figure out how to clone yourself to some extent because you're just a lot of unique.

Hilary Jay 26:01

I feel like a therapist a lot. I do. And I don't know how you clone therapy.

Marc Bernstein 26:06

Right.

Hilary Jay 26:07

Um but I do know a couple of really wonderful people who work with me and they um they do an exceptional job of hand holding a game. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

Marc Bernstein 26:15

You continue to work alongside of them and mentor them. It's kind of what I've been doing in my business. Yeah. It could be we can talk about that. Trevor Burrus, Jr. Okay, that would be good.

Hilary Jay 26:22

I would like that.

Final Thoughts And Sign Off

Announcer 26:28

Founders Founders’ Forum was brought to you in part, by March Forward, LLC. We partner with entrepreneurs like you to assist in accomplishing your future vision. Your life. Your business. Your legacy. Comprehensive wealth planning that starts with you -- not a product. We hope you enjoyed your time with Founders’ Forum and that you found something of value to take with you throughout your day. Join us again next week for another episode of Founders’ Forum on WWDB 860 AM Philadelphia, or on your favorite podcast streaming service. Securities offered through DFPG Investments, LLC (“DFPG”) Investment Advisory Services offered through Diversify Advisory Services, LLC (“Diversify”). DAS and DFPG are affiliated entities. March is unaffiliated with DAS and DFPG. Member FINRA/SIPC The information provided in this podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and should not be interpreted as investment advice. The views expressed are those of the host and guests and do not necessarily reflect the views of Diversify or DFPG.