Founders' Forum
Great business stories and great people come together on Marc Bernstein’s Founders’ Forum! Marc Bernstein sits down with business founders across the country to discuss their lives, successes, lessons, and their vision for the future. It’s all about the success they’ve earned and the lessons they’ve learned along the way. These are American success stories and they’re not done yet!
Your Host, Marc Bernstein
Marc Bernstein is an entrepreneur, author, and consultant. He helps high performing entrepreneurs and business owners create a vision for the future, accomplish their business and personal goals, financial and otherwise, and on helping them to see through on their intentions. Marc recently co-founded March, a forward-looking company with a unique approach to wealth management. He captured his philosophy in his #1 Amazon Bestseller, The Fiscal Therapy Solution 1.0. Marc is also the founder of the Forward Focus Forum, a suite of resources tailored specifically to educate and connect high performing entrepreneurs, and helping them realize their vision of true financial independence. Find out more about Marc and connect with him at marcjbernstein.com.
Are you a visionary founder with a compelling success story that deserves to be shared with our audience? We're on the lookout for accomplished business leaders like you to be featured on the Founders' Forum Radio Show and Podcast. If you've surmounted challenges, reached significant milestones, or have an exciting vision for the future, we'd be honored to have you as a guest on our show. Your experiences and insights can inspire and enlighten others in the business world. If you're eager to share your journey and the invaluable lessons you've learned along the way, we invite you to apply here. Connect with us, and let's discuss the possibility of featuring you in an upcoming episode. Join us in celebrating your success and contributing to the legacy of the Founders' Forum!
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Founders' Forum
How to Turn Failure Into a Founder Win with Mary McCorvey
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Seven companies, one shutdown, and a lesson she wouldn’t trade. Mary McCorvey says building is a compulsion, and failure is part of the deal.
In this episode of Founders Forum, Marc Bernstein talks with Mary McCorvey, a media producer, author and Army veteran. She shares her path from Armed Services Radio at 18 to novelist, playwright, software co-founder and event producer. She also explains why she welcomes failure and how she used AI as a co-writer for her book, Experience Over Expectation.
Key takeaways:
- Founding is a compulsion. The motivation stays the same, but AI and the way companies are funded have changed the journey.
- Use a “five-point seat belt.” Fast-moving markets need more protection around you, like a race car driver.
- Choose your co-founder carefully. A wrong pick is one of the biggest reasons companies fail.
- Being early to market can sink a good product. Her software startup had the right idea before customers were ready.
- Legacy is impact. Mentoring and creating work that reaches people, including people you never meet.
About Mary McCorvey:
Mary McCorvey is a media producer, author and serial founder who has started seven companies. A U.S. Army veteran, she began as a disc jockey and TV producer with Armed Services Radio and Television.
She has built a consulting firm, worked as a novelist and playwright, co-founded a software company, and created the Lincoln 200 bicentennial festival. She also produced the Triumph Games for CBS Sports, featuring military veterans.
Mary is the author of Experience Over Expectation, written with an AI co-writer. She mentors entrepreneurs and is open to collaborations in media development and cross-platform storytelling.
Marc Bernstein's Founders' Forum is brought to you by March Forward, LLC, and this episode is sponsored by The Satell Institute; the leading CEO organization dedicated to Corporate Social Responsibility. Go to satellinstitute.org to learn more.
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Sponsor Open And Show Setup
AnnouncerThe following programming is sponsored by Marc J. Bernstein. The views expressed do not necessarily reflect the views of this station, its management, or Beasly Media Group. Entrepreneur, founder, author and financial advisor, Marc Bernstein helps high-performing business owners turn their visions into reality. At March Forward, Marc and his partners and associates think out of the box to partner with their clients in regards to their visions for their lives, their businesses and their legacies. And through his innovative work with the Forward Focus Forums, Marc connects entrepreneurs to resources that help to fuel their success. Founders’ Forum is a radio show and podcast where entrepreneurs share their journeys, revealing the stories behind their successes, and the lessons they’ve learned. Join Marc and his guests for a mix of inspiration, valuable insights, and a bit of fun! Now, let’s dive in...
Marc BernsteinGood morning, America. How are you this morning? We, or this afternoon, or this evening, whenever you're listening to this. We have in the studio today Mary. I'll say her name. I don't always do this at the beginning. Mary McCorvey. She was a guest host that we recorded earlier today with Neil Cooper of Royer Cooper. And she's I've known Mary because of the Entrepreneurs Roundtable Group at the Union League of Philadelphia. And she is a very interesting person with very interesting background. And for our topic of the day, we were talking before the show about uh founders of companies, because that's what the show
What’s Changed For Founders Today
Marc Bernsteinis about. And what's different today than maybe even a decade ago? Things are changing rapidly in the world. So, Mary, I'd love to hear your insights on that.
Mary McCorveyWell, thank you, Marc, and thank you so much for having me on the program. I really appreciate it.
Marc BernsteinAnd welcome. I'm thrilled to have you.
Mary McCorveySo I have the the privilege of having founded a company, uh several companies. Okay, seven companies.
Marc BernsteinRight, right. I was gonna say come on, there's a little more.
Mary McCorveyOver a period of time uh that that span more than ten years. But looking back ten years ago and and today, I've had the opportunity to really experience the the founder's journey. And what I've learned is that you need a the the motivation is the same. It's a compulsion, it's not something that you have a choice.
Marc BernsteinRight.
Mary McCorveyYou have to do it.
Marc BernsteinRight.
Mary McCorveyThat doesn't change. What's changed is the way that we approach the opportunity that we're creating. And so the the e-myth, for example, the book, the e-myth, there's a lot that's still relevant, there's a lot that's that's changed in the environment.
Marc BernsteinCan you name can you think of one thing that you would use as an example that's changed?
Mary McCorveySure. So today I can't imagine working without artificial intelligence.
Marc BernsteinRight. Right.
Mary McCorveyThat's just the the nature of of the job. And if you don't use it, you will be immediately behind the gate ball.
Marc BernsteinAnd we're going to talk about your book in a little bit, which you you used artificial intelligence, I'd say, in a unique way already. And we'll talk about that uh when we get there. But yeah. So that's one example. Anything else you can think of?
Mary McCorveyWell, I think that the nature of how to capitalize a company has also changed because of the speed at which we're all traveling now. So you have to go into your your endeavor, go into your journey knowing that you really need what I call a five-point seat belt. Are you familiar with the five-point seat belt, Marc?
Marc BernsteinNo, I have a sense of what that is, but uh it'd be good for you to explain it.
Mary McCorveyWell, I have a passion for motorsports. So when you get into a race car, you have the way we normally put on a seatbelt is is is a three-point seat belt.
Marc BernsteinRight.
Mary McCorveyIf you get in a race car, you better have a five-point seat belt all around.
Marc BernsteinRight.
Mary McCorveyAnd that's the way it is in the environment right now and the founder's journey. You have to have that level of um you have to have that level of protection around yourself because the G forces are such that they're just gonna take you away if you don't.
Marc BernsteinThat's very illustrative and descriptive, and uh I get it. So
Mary’s Early Life And Army Start
Marc Bernsteinthat's great. So we're gonna move on because we have a lot to cover in our 28 minutes that we have for this show. So let me introduce Mary officially. And um so it's gonna it's gonna be a lot, but I'm gonna tell I'm gonna tell you a bit about Mary. She develops and produces high-pack high-impact media projects that connect with audiences across platforms, digital television, live, and emerging formats. As a founder and creative entrepreneur, she specializes in leading content initiatives from concept to execution. Her background spans unscripted storytelling, branded experiences, civic engagement campaigns, and audience-driven formats that educate, inspire, and entertain. With by the way, she has a comedy background too. You're going to tell us a few jokes, maybe on the show.
Mary McCorveyProbably not.
Marc BernsteinOkay, probably not. Okay, I won't put you on the spot. With deep experience in founding and startup leadership, talent development, and strategic storytelling, she brings together the right teams, platforms, and partnerships to create scalable media experiences with commercial and cultural relevance. Her work sits at the intersection of creative strategy, execution, and social impact, leveraging deep narrative sensibility with operational rigor. From civic storytelling initiatives to podcasts and scalable digital formats, she's focused on producing work that not only reaches wide audiences but resonates. So she would like to connect with those who explore collaboration and media development, talent partnerships, across platform storytelling. So we're collaborating today. So this is who knows what will come out of this.
Mary McCorveyThat's quite a mouthful there, Marc. Thank you.
Marc BernsteinWell, there's a lot. So and let me tell you that she's the author of a book called Experience Over Expectations, which in and of itself tells you a lot because there's that's part of her story, and she'll explain that title. And also, we're gonna talk a little bit about how she used AI in the book. In fact, her partner is AI, spelled a little differently than you're used to seeing it. And she also, as she mentioned, was the founder of seven companies, and she's a veteran from a young age of the U.S. Armed Services. So Mary's done a lot in her few years on Earth. So where do you like to start? Let's tell tell your story about how you grew up, went into the Army, and then became an entrepreneur. I think it's kind of how it goes.
Mary McCorveyWell, I grew up in Sarasota, Florida, and had uh a wonderful life there. And I left there when I was 16 years old. I joined the Army when I was 18 years old, and I started my first business when I was 18 years old.
Marc BernsteinRight. So there you go. So it all happened at once.
Mary McCorveySo the the Army offered me uh a great opportunity. So being with you here today is just like coming back to home because the the job that I had in the Army was with the Armed Services Radio and Television Network.
Marc BernsteinRight, right.
Mary McCorveySo I was uh during the daytime I was a disc jockey and television producer, and then at nighttime I had my entrepreneurial uh endeavor of playing disc jockey in clubs.
Marc BernsteinRight, right. I remember that. That's great. That's great.
Mary McCorveyYeah. So so from a very early age I've been an entrepreneur.
Marc BernsteinSo you were making and I assume saving money since the Army was paying your way, your room and board, and all that. You were saving money at a young age, I would imagine, too.
Mary McCorveyOh, sure. Yeah.
Marc BernsteinWhich is great.
Mary McCorveyAbsolutely. The mil the military experience, I highly recommend it for any young person who uh wants to not only travel the world and have the experience of being all you can be, so to speak.
Marc BernsteinRight. I think I've heard that before.
Mary McCorveyBut also the things that you learn that you bring into your entire life going forward.
Marc BernsteinAnd how long did you serve in the armed services?
Mary McCorveyFor six years.
Marc BernsteinSix years.
Mary McCorveyAnd then there was another seven where I was a civilian executive with the army.
Marc BernsteinAnd I think did I think the armed services resulted in a marriage, maybe? Am I right about that?
Mary McCorveyI'm sorry, repeat.
Marc BernsteinArmed services resulted in you getting married at at some point around there?
Mary McCorveyYes, I was. I was married around the same time that I joined the Army.
Marc BernsteinRight. Okay. So you got out of the Army, you had a civilian job after that, right? And then what was your next entrepreneurial foray after that?
Consulting Career And The Three-Year Cycle
Mary McCorveyAfter that, I became uh a business consultant, a business organizational development business consultant. And that's when I came to Philadelphia. I came to my my last service with the government was when I went to Desert Storm in Kuwait in 1991.
Marc BernsteinRight.
Mary McCorveyAnd then I came back from that, had really quite an experience transitioning out of that, and ultimately met Ed Rendell. How many people know Ed Rendell? A whole bunch.
Marc BernsteinFor those not in Philadelphia, former mayor, former I guess chair of the Democratic Party nationally at one point.
Mary McCorveyYes, and and governor of the state.
Marc BernsteinAnd governor of course governor, two term governor of Pennsylvania who Yes. So how did you meet Ed Rendell if you weren't living in Philadelphia? You met him when you came to Philadelphia?
Mary McCorveyI met him in 1992 when he first was elected as mayor of Philadelphia. And he said, would love to have you come and work on my transition team.
Marc BernsteinIs that what brought you to Philadelphia or you're already here? That's what brought you there.
Mary McCorveyThat's what brought me here. Okay. And I kept coming back. I lived in New Jersey at the time, and I kept coming back to Philadelphia and just fell in love with the city. And so, sure, I said I'd be glad to do that. And then Philadelphia being what it is, it just, you know, such a warm welcome.
Marc BernsteinSure.
Mary McCorveyAnd so I started a business in organizational development consulting.
Marc BernsteinSo did when what brought you to New Jersey from did you go back to Florida after the Army or no?
Mary McCorveyNo, I traveled the world and I kept going.
Marc BernsteinOkay. But why why New Jersey?
Mary McCorveyOh, I settled in New Jersey the same reason, Marc, that people, you know, they they travel or or they make decisions, life decisions for love or money.
Marc BernsteinRight, right.
Mary McCorveySometimes both, for love or money.
Marc BernsteinGot it.
Mary McCorveySo that one was for love.
Marc BernsteinRight, got it.
Mary McCorveyAnd I I married a naval aviator.
Marc BernsteinThere you go.
Mary McCorveyAnd um so we settled at his base in New Jersey. Ah, got it. He was the commander of that base. Right.
Marc BernsteinSo and then you're working on the Ren Rendell transition team. Right. So you know a lot of people. You must know Tom Knox, who's been on the show. I do know Tom Jackson.
Mary McCorveyAnd his lovely wife Linda Knox. Right.
Marc BernsteinRight, right. And uh do you do you happen to know Susan Jacobson? Do you know Susan Jacobson? I do. She's been on the show as well, yeah.
Mary McCorveySure.
Marc BernsteinSo there you go. So so small, small, big small town, Philadelphia. Uh so you did that. So how long did you do that for?
Mary McCorveyAbout ten years.
Marc BernsteinOh, really? Yes. You worked in the administration for ten years. Oh no, no, no.
Mary McCorveyNot in the administration. In my business for organizational development. Oh, you're still doing that. Okay. Gotcha. Yes.
Marc BernsteinAnd what was your next move after that?
Mary McCorveyThat's when I started my what I call the the three-year gigs.
Marc BernsteinRight, right.
Mary McCorveyAnd and I hearkened back to the time when I was in the military because you're generally stationed for three years at a time.
Marc Bernsteinso it wasn't an accident that it worked out that way.
Mary McCorveyWell, yes. And it comes you come to expect that you're going to have a life change in three years.
Marc BernsteinRight. Interesting.
Mary McCorveyAnd so one of the things that I found out about being a founder is that there is a lifespan that you're really, really effective. Some some founders can go on and become the CEO of the company and grow it and take it to IPO and exit and all of that. Some but they're very few, I believe.
Marc BernsteinWhat's interesting because I'm going to ask you later in the show about your three-year vision, which I expect will look a lot different than where you are today based on based on your uh your your commitment issues, as you call them.
Mary McCorveyAh. However, I will be using some of the same skills and the the motivations that drive me.
Marc BernsteinI'm sure because that doesn't change.
Mary McCorveyYes.
Marc BernsteinSo we'll we'll get to that. Okay, so we'll tell us about the three-year gigs we have about a minute and a half before um the commercial, so maybe we can maybe we can cover
Creative Pivot Then A Software Startup
Marc Bernsteinthose.
Mary McCorveyWell when I when I left business, I went into the creative world. And so I became a novelist. I became a playwright. I became uh a person who worked in professional theater. And that over the next, say, eight years.
Marc BernsteinWas that your an outgrowth of you being a b from being a broadcaster in the Army, do you think?
Mary McCorveyOr
Marc BernsteinAbsolutely.
Mary McCorveyAbsolutely. And uh I was just exploring different areas and I I had some significant success in all of them.
Marc BernsteinRight.
Mary McCorveyBut after a period of time, I found that I had done what I came to do and I was ready for next.
Marc BernsteinRight. So author, playwright, um, and director, you're doing all these things. And that was for a three-year period, I assume?
Mary McCorveyFor about an eight-year period.
Marc BernsteinOh, okay.
Mary McCorveySo then I went into commercial business.
Marc BernsteinAh. And what was the com what was the first commercial business you went into?
Mary McCorveyIt was a software development company that I co-founded uh with two really, really great partners.
Marc BernsteinNice.
Mary McCorveyAnd we went in um with the idea that we were, again, going back to my roots, that we were going to create a uh software platform to do customized video delivery with collecting consumer data.
Marc BernsteinInteresting. Well, that is a perfect time to stop for a commercial break, and we will be right back with Mary McCorvey on Founders Forum.
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Shutting Down Early And Learning Failure
Marc BernsteinWe're back on Founders Forum with my very interesting guest today, Mary McCorvey, who's a very interesting life so far. And um so you were you had started a software development uh company with partners, and you had great partners. And can I assume you had a successful exit from that company?
Mary McCorveyYou may not assume that.
Marc BernsteinOkay.
Mary McCorveyYou may not.
Marc BernsteinI did find that out on the break that I that was a leading question. And and so what did you do?
Mary McCorveySo um ultimately we had to wind the company down. Um there were there were several reasons for that. The primary reason is that we had done the requisite um market research. We knew that video was going to be surging, and it and it did and it has. We knew that the the um demand for customer data and information on you know the way people think, the way they shop, their buying decisions, we knew that data related to that was going to be demand in demand. What we did not understand at that time is that we were early to market.
Marc BernsteinRight.
Mary McCorveyI'll tell you, it was great. It was it was a great platform. Um but we were just early to market because the our customers, which were essentially Fortune 500 companies that were interested in doing in in the marketing sector. Um they just were not ready to their their infrastructure, they were not ready to accept this particular product and service at this particular time.
Marc BernsteinSo they they were they didn't know yet what they were going to do with that data, I guess.
Mary McCorveyYes, that was into they knew what they wanted to do with it, but they didn't have a system in place to actually accept the data and manage it and get value from it.
Marc BernsteinGot it. So you shut the company down.
Mary McCorveyI did, and I learned a lot about failure.
Marc BernsteinRight.
Mary McCorveyYes.
Marc BernsteinWhat was the lesson?
Mary McCorveyThe lesson was that had I not started that company, I would have learned differently about failure.
Marc BernsteinRight.
Mary McCorveyNumber one, this is going to sound odd perhaps, but I welcome failure because in developing software, and unless you find the failures before you go to market, you're going to be in a you know, a hot bucket of mess.
Marc BernsteinYou know, don't you think in anything unless you fail, you you can't grow, you can't learn, right?
Mary McCorveyAbsolutely. Absolutely that uh that's and from from a software standpoint, it was a very practical lesson, uh, but it applies uh across a lot of different areas of your life. So you know it's hard to say that I welcome failure, but it's really the perception of of the situation and how you look at it.
Marc BernsteinSo d you knew when you shut it down that this was a lesson. You weren't looking at it like, oh my god, we failed. You were looking at it like this is good because I learned a lot from this.
Mary McCorveyAbsolutely. That's a good idea. Absolutely and I I would like to, you know, give a shout out to my two co-founders who were just they were they were just super. And all of the pieces were in place for a very successful endeavor. And it's just simply that early to market thing. But in terms of being a founder, I do want to share this my opinion and my experience as I've mentored a lot of entrepreneurs, that people who found companies make the biggest mistakes, sometimes not recoverable, by choosing the wrong co-founder.
Marc BernsteinRight.
Mary McCorveyThat's that I think is one of the biggest reasons why companies fail.
Marc BernsteinI've had that experience.
Mary McCorveyI've had that experience too. Not not in this particular case, but in another case, yes.
Marc BernsteinAnd actually we talked about that in reverse on Neil's show that we just did. He happened to choose the right co-founder originally, and it worked out well. But had he not, maybe a whole different result result. Um so then you went from that to your next entrepreneurial endeavor, I imagine?
Lincoln 200 And Building Experiences
Mary McCorveyYes. So my next entrepreneurial endeavor was um a and this is what I've done over in these three year gigs. Um then my next one was creating an experience. So for example, I created with with a co-founder who was a good co-founder, and you may know her, Diane Simmingson.
Marc BernsteinI know her by name, don't know her.
Mary McCorveyDiane and I created uh Lincoln 200, the bicentennial festival.
Marc BernsteinOh, right, yeah.
Mary McCorveyAnd it was it was Lincoln's 200th birthday. And we said, you know what, we've heard enough about the tragedy, we've heard enough about the assassination and the horrible times. We need to have a party for Abraham Lincoln.
Marc BernsteinRight.
Mary McCorveyBecause his impact on people's lives uh and and the country is so much greater than that simplification. And so we created the the bicentennial festival. And so we had to raise money in the Right. Wow.
Marc BernsteinAnd uh so I raised some money during those years too. I know what that was.
Mary McCorveyIt was not easy.
Marc BernsteinAnd uh how did that all work out?
Mary McCorveyIt worked out beautifully. It was a great success.
Marc BernsteinThat's great. And what came after that?
Mary McCorveyWhat came after that was uh uh again, looking at the founder's journey, um what what mine is is I f I get compelled by an idea. I get yes, Lincoln has to have a burden.
Marc BernsteinRight, right, right, right.
Mary McCorveyUm and then I say, okay, I'm going to do it. And then I capitalize it, and then I build the team, and then I execute. And they that usually takes a period of, you know, twenty-four to thirty-six months.
Veterans Media Project And Triumph Games
Mary McCorveySo the next thing that that I did was my compulsion was around um military veterans who were coming back from the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, and there was a a media blitz about how they were all broken, homeless, unemployable, you know, really, really difficult in the workplace and all of that, and I knew that to be wrong. And so I built a company around changing that narrative on a national level.
Marc BernsteinAnd having those veterans become employed an ultimate goal, I guess, right?
Mary McCorveyThat is absolutely the case. Yes. So I created with my background in in media, I created a production company uh called the Triumph Games. And I produced for CBS Sports two years of uh competitions with. Wow. Interesting. And that was a great success.
Marc BernsteinNice. So and then after that? I'm I'm not number one, we're running out of time, and I don't want to not dwell on your successes, but I know you learn more from the the hard stuff. So so you've had we're talking about some of your successes. So what went what came after the triumph games?
The Moonshot Rover And COVID Reality
Mary McCorveyMy moonshot. Which was My moonshot was working with young people to get them to compete and create a lunar rover that was going to race on the moon.
Marc BernsteinRight.
Mary McCorveyI found I found out that someone was going to the moon, a company was going to the moon. And I said, well, if somebody's going to the moon, our kids have got to be on that lander.
Marc BernsteinNice.
Mary McCorveyAnd so I became compelled by that. I had a business model to work on it. And I went out and I found a rocket company. I found a lander company. I found a rover company. I found kids from all over the world that wanted to participate in this. And it was a remarkable successful launch. And then COVID hit.
Marc BernsteinYeah. So so th did the rover ever get to the moon?
Mary McCorveyThe rover did not get to the moon.
Marc BernsteinBut the rover was created though. Got it. Wow.
Mary McCorveyYeah.
Marc BernsteinWe only have a few minutes left. So I want to get to your book. I want to make sure we cover your book a little bit.
Writing A Memoir With An AI Partner
Marc BernsteinSure. So the book is called Experience Over Expectation. And I'm in the middle of reading it. And one of the interesting things about it is you have a partner on the book whose name is AI, spelled if I got a correct E-H-E-Y-E. Correct. Right? And um so tell us about that, how and why you did that, and what the book is about.
Mary McCorveySure. Well, experience over expectation, and the the subtitle is Let Go of the Plan and Live on Your Terms. And what it is is a a reflection of different aspects of my life. And I I do tend to focus on lessons that I learned. And I was writing that that type of a memoir. And I kept finding myself going back to AI for research purposes and so forth. And I said, I wonder if I put my story into AI and ask it to analyze it, what would I get? I didn't have to use the information. It completely changed the course of the book. And so AI then became my my co-writer, my editor, so to speak. And so there's a chapter where I talk about something that happened in my life, and then AI analyzes that against thousands and thousands of other cases of people who were in the same situation, made similar decisions, and had similar outcomes.
Marc BernsteinIt's very interesting because it's written in your voice, but you're very transparent about how you used AI, and AI is your partner in the book. It's interesting how it's written. I I have the feel for that, I know the pattern, and I'm looking forward to getting to the end of it and talking to you about it again. But we're almost out of
Defining Legacy And Closing
Marc Bernsteintime. So I want to ask you, you've done a lot, and we've covered a lot of your story, not all of it, because it would be impossible in this amount of time. But um, what would you like your legacy to be? Because you've done so many great things and impacted so many people. What would what what do you think about your legacy that you'd love to leave behind at some time in the future?
Mary McCorveyWell, that's a great question, Marc. Thank you. And I I think it it does for for me, it means impacting people in a positive way. Whether I am mentoring um a young entrepreneur or a military veteran, or whether I'm creating something that you know millions of people experience through uh mass media, uh the the goal and the purpose is to have a positive impact. And I know that I have been able to do that, and I'm grateful for it.
Marc BernsteinAnd that's and that impact on as many people as you possibly can would be your legacy.
Mary McCorveyAnd especially people that I have no idea that I've impacted.
Marc BernsteinRight. That's the best part, isn't it, when that happens. So with that, thanks so much for being here, Mary. It's a great show. Really? Thank you, Marc. I could talk to you all day. And thank you all for listening. And we'll see you next week on Founders Forum.
